im not asking the shops on this forum to post their annual income, but im more interested in what a new(ish) shop coming up in the business is making a yr. mostly fabrication/installs/web sales and a few repairs here and there.

im finishing my x-ray tech courses and i'd start making high 40's/low 50's a yr .. but if i can make that doing local/interenet fabwork i'd much rather work with what i love to do than make a nice living with benefits but wish i would have taken the chance and worked with cars/fabwork.

would an upcoming fab/performance shop make that kind of money with a steady flow of work? also, around how much are some well-known shops making (guesses).

sorry if this is kinda broad, but im trying to see if i should take more interested in this as a carreer

 

you actually like working on cars? i only really like working on mine, and when i'm in the mood i like taking on a project or two. i deff. would not want to do shop/car work for a living everyday.
my dream job is R&D work for the performance division of a car company, like M, AMG, SVT etc etc.
i just think it's nice to have the skill to be able to fab stuff whenever you want, and have a hobby that will keep you busy and possibly bring in some extra cash on the side.

 

I dunno about the other guys, but I've been open over a year, and I haven't taken a single paycheck yet. Business has pretty much remained steady, and I never have a day where there is "nothing" to do, yet, there is no money left over after bills etc at the end of the month to take home. It's to the point where I'm considering closing the doors and just leaving welding altogether. I really don't enjoy it anymore. It's probably something I'm doing wrong (or something I'm not doing), because I see other shops out there that are flying, and have crazy shop cars etc ... with lots and lots of work and a few employees, and their quality isn't always top notch. I still walk or take my bike to work.

After a few meetings with accountants and other "experts", I had to raise my hourly rate to stay alive, and since I have done this, there are fewer and fewer bites after I make quotes for work.

But I also agree that this stuff was about 2000% more fun when it was a hobby. Now it's just work, and dealing with pushy customers who want everything for free.

 

I cant speak on income of a fabricator, but I can tell you this is a tough time to start a business. I started a landscaping company a few years ago and I didnt start paying myself for 3 years. I still have not quit my full time career as a mechanic and it will probably be a few more years before I grow the ***** to take that leap. Im just trying to build a great customer base and learn more than the basics of how to run and manage a business (paperwork and especially taxes suck a big one). Its tough, and if I didnt know how to fix and maintain my own equipment I would probably be under already.

I hate working on cars that dont belong to me, and if you are in the fab side of things I could only imagine how pushy and demanding the customers would be. If you love working and fabbing things for cars then IMO, you should keep it as a hobby and a way to make some side cash to support your habit (racing is more expensive than a drug habit, lol). Take the benefits and the steady paycheck and run with it.

Good Luck with whatever you choose

 

im thinking of starting shop too, but still a little undecided. So Im in to see what other ppl have to say.

 

I'll give a little input here. I went to college for physics, I was planning on getting out and teaching high school or possibly college level at one point. As a high school teacher I would have had a modest income but a steady, reliable job with good benefits and holidays. Anyway, I started working on cars a few years ago, and then in 07, the summer before I was going to start teaching, I ended up working at a shop, then moved to another shop shortly after in Florida, then moved back home and now I'm doing this. I will tell you right now, there are days and even weeks when I wish I just did teaching, I do enjoy what I do now, but being relatively new still, it can be very very hard.

Anyway... I moved up here at the end of October last year (2008) and pretty much started my shop with nothing; I had just enough tools to get by on mechanical stuff, bought a decent TIG welder, and had some basics like a belt sander and a grinder, I didn't even have a good workbench at first. I'm telling you this to give you a feel for stuff we've had to buy and how I've been relatively frugal with stuff. I have a small amount of debt in personal loans, but it's only a couple grand and it's being paid off slowly. Pretty much every month since then I have been able to pay all my shop expenses, and all my personal expenses, which amounts to $1500-$2000 per month. Things have been getting increasingly more busy, over the last few months I've been working a minimum of 80 hours per week, sometimes more. I have taken a couple of days off to visit family, but at the same time I've blown off a few family holidays to work, and my family is only 2-3 hours away (driving). Yeah, I'm getting to the point where I can pay myself beyond my essential expenses, and here and there I get to go out for a meal or buy myself some shoes or something, but you work a LOT more for that stuff.

Everyone talks about having less fun with any business. Honestly, I still enjoy every minute of it. I absolutely love when I meet someone new and I get to tell them that I build custom cars and get to be in "the scene" and all that stuff. I still stay at the shop and I love helping my friends out with their projects. The only thing that burns me out is the long hours of physical labour, its just very physically taxing on the body. I guess I just have the motivation to do it, there are days when I don't want to get out of bed, but really, if I don't, I'm kind of ****ed because this is my income, I don't have a side job or another source I can draw on, so I have had to make it work. The worst thing for me right now is that I don't have the money or time to get my own car back on the road the way I want it, while I'm helping everyone around me (friends and customers) get their stuff together.

Honestly dude, if you have to ask, and you're concerned about the money, don't do it. I think I'm in the minority being able to live off of this in under six months, and I'm telling you it's not as easy as it seems, if you make $40-$50k a year you'd have a heart attack before you had time to use that cash.

Sorry to go on forever, there is just so much more to it than how much money you'd make, there are a lot of factors that you should think about and know about before you make a decision like this.


edit: I also do a fair amount of mechanical work, I'm not primarily a fabricator, but it does comprise a decent piece of my income. I don't do crap stuff like inspections or clutches on Dodge Omnis, mostly installs and some larger jobs on the cars I mainly cater to (Honda, Subaru).

 

pretty crazy how it all works out huh? i used to always wonder how all of these shops did so "well" and i'd say about 95% of the time they either go ape **** with credit card debt making it look like they are doing better than they really are, or even more often than that there is family money involved. it seems there are very very few people/shops that just "take off" and are very profitable.

with how much money the government takes in taxes, how expensive all of the tooling, and shop supplies,and everything else is, it makes it nearly impossible to take home any money after you pay the bills.

for the most part people look at what you do as you having a dream job, and they dont understand that you do that to pay your bills, not just for fun. so at that point all of your friends expect you to "hook them up" and when you charge them they get all bent out of shape and think your an *******.

every time i try to help somebody out i get burned hard. people like to add things to what they originally wanted you to do, and when you do what they asked they get mad that the bill went up. let people borrow parts and you never get them back, "hey can i use your lift", everything is always too expensive, people just expect you to drop everything your doing, even if its on the weekend or after hours, to help them out or let them use your tools/dyno/whatever. there are days i just want to hit myself in the head with a hammer, and every now and then there are good days.

 

I can tell you after being at this for 5 years I wish I would have kept cars/fab my hobby...on one hand I have progressed as a fabricator and mechanic and have picked up skills and experience I never would have if I had just stayed working at the day job, but on the flip side I think about the kind of money I could have been making for the last 5 years at a day job, and I seriously wonder wtf was wrong with me when I decided to do this...

I can say that starting out, you definitely won't be making 40-50 a year...although maybe your better at business then me, maybe you don't have as many dead beat friends that want free work, and maybe your customers won't be crying about estimates and bills...maybe that is...or maybe you will find yourself in the same shoes I am in

fwiw...I cleared just under 25k last year after expenses...I'm not too proud to say it, I'm not a business man, and help my friends out too much and screw myself...and it is only getting harder...especially when I know what I could be making working for someone else

 

There is def money to be made. But alot of it is in thrieving cities or if you are the innovator of a new trend. Most of the time business will be steady but thats it. The key to making it last is keep the overhead low. Buy everything with cash. If you dont have the money for it dont buy it. Also at the beginning dont expect to make money for yourself. Its not going to happen often. You have to role what the shop brings in into the next week. And after alittle while you can start breaking up the weekly income into percentages that go to bills for the shop, investing in the buisness and then yourself if theres any left over. Most people want there own business to be there on boss. But it can be very stressful on yourself and family. just prepare yourself for long days and weekends. I can assure you though that hard work will pay off in the end. And dont get careless with your quality of work.
I have worked for the two big shops here in my area, and I can tell you one thing. Neither shops will make it big with the way there being ran. You can get so much work in that it sacrifices quality and customer service. And you can scare people off with quoting them to much. So have a good game plan and stick to it.

 

i was never very good at fabricating, but i was able to make almost anything using equipment that i did not own at my job. i had access to milling machines, lathes, cnc plasma, wire edm, and free raw materials.

i made parts here and there and sold them online. i was making like a few grand a month tax free on top of my engineerign salary of 45k. that was the best compromise i think...

 

Have you looked into doing fabrication for non-automotive stuff?

 

Not really, I don't mind doing the other stuff, and I kind of like it. I didn't start doing this because I love fabrication or because I'm very good at it, I started because I like modifying cars... doing mundane fab work wouldn't get me off really. Also I'm not very efficient with a lot of fab work so I don't think it would make me very much money in relation to the time put in, I can't charge someone a lot because it takes me longer to do than it would someone else.

 

First off I just want to say that this is a very good thread, and all those that think it is your passion please read. For some it is very hard to look at making money versus doing what you are passionate about. If you have an opportunity to make $40 - $50k a year by all means take the offer, if you are passionate about what you do and are willing to sacrifice a little financial freedom then do what makes you happy. Yes majority of those that primarily fabricate will tell you at the end of the month, we just get the bills paid and enough to get a burger. But those that truly love what they do will also tell you they would not trade it for the world. Ultimately the choice is yours and you have to live with it, I myself would not trade it for the world.

 

Couldn't have put it better.

 

I'm not a fab guy, but don't expect to make any money for at least the first year. That is if your serious about it and set the business up accordingly.

 

When you shop owners say there is not much money after "bills" does that include the mortgage/rent and utilities of your home or just shop bills?

If I know I can at least pay those bills and I know this is what I want to do I'd definately do it.

 

For me it includes my basic personal living expenses.

 

Then I envy you! LOL I would love to do this!

 

As a new shop owner I can comment / suggest a few things. I have been in business now for several years, but recently moved my shop to my first commercial location. I recently just quit my day job, as the shop was getting busy enough that it was very stressful for me to work 730-4pm and be at my shop from 6-12 and later every night, takes an extreme toll on your body.

Now I'm not a fabrication shop, I focus my efforts on highline automotive repair / performance. I work primarily on German vehicles, as my partner and I have extensive background on them. I will take on fab work, but it by choice only, and only jobs that are worth the time and effort.

I can tell you your personal life will go out the window, be prepared to loose your friends, and work 80 hr/weeks. But in the end you must make sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Now that I'm at my own shop everyday I have taken a pay cut, as most of the profit after my expenses are paid are invested back into my shop for new equipment and inventory. I have enough financial stability that I can survive / live with my paycut as it will only be temporary.

I would suggest having an accountant setup your business to ensure it is 100% legitimate and legal to operate. Luckly I have a close friend that takes care of this for me, comes to the shop about every 4 weeks to check on my book keeping and financials (helps keep me sane).

Be prepared for it to be slow, it took me a few months just to get all the paper work sorted out with the township before I could even open the door to do business. But every week I have been hear business is picking up more and more. You have to be focused to succeed, set a goal and achieve it.

If you love what you do every day then you should have no problem focusing and striving to build your business. Money will come in time, hard work always pays off.

Good luck my friend.

 

investing in law school and abandoning fab work is what I did...
so far its paying off, but its HARD work man...
working hard behind a desk is NOT fun.
fab work can be fun.

 

*****.... you has them.

 

For me, all the money is taken up by the commercial rent, electricity, gas bottles rental, materials, internet, phone lines, security system, and whatever else I'm forgetting. I have not taken a penny outside of the business since day one.

When we opened the business, we applied for different governement-funded programs for young entrepreneurs starting businesses, and one of the programs we got approved for gives us a bi-monthly check for living expenses. Both partners are eledgible, so both Tamara and I have this. It is offered for one year only, and I think we got the last check a week ago. So now there is no money for home expense, and it looks like Tamara is going back to a full time job outside of the business to help support us while we try and keep this thing growing. It's going to be very hard without her 'cause she does everything except weld at the shop. When she takes a day off I really feel the hit with phone calls and trying to run errands.

 

I know this all too well, I do it all by myself and I spend 60% of the day talking with customers, emails, quotes, vendors, bills, etc...

The only way I make it is doing general repair work. People always need tune ups, brakes, suspension work and general up keep. Custom fab goes for $100 an hr but its straight labor. Flat rate tech labor pays much much better.

 

Oops I was trying to quote Agtronic not sure what happened thaere.

 

I have pretty much the same answer as downest. I would do it, but I'm trying to keep a reputation for good quality automotive fab work. I routinely turn down rust buckets and quick mig-welded exhaust jobs because that's not the type of work I want to be known for.