Hey guys, need some help here... I was at a track event yesterday 06/20/2009, and during my final run, my car stopped running and would not start. I was on a high speed right (80-90 mph) when I noticed my battery light went on, so I turned the hazards and pulled over to let the rest of the field pass me by. Once it was clear, I attempted to drive back to the paddocks / pits, and maybe after 100 yards, the oil light came on and the car just stopped.
My 1996 Integra RS does crank but does not start. When we opened the hood for inspection, I noticed that my alternator belt and a/c belt were gone. Fragments of the belt were found around the driver's side of the engine bay including the rear edge of the timing belt cover. I pulled several belt pieces off the timing belt cover. Before I start waisting money, I wanted your opinion. If it is the timing belt, I was planning on doing a swap at a later date anyway, but if it is just the accessory belts, I wanted to just do that until I really learn my new chassis (old prelude sh driver here).

Thanks in advance for any help... Allan

 

Would a blown / broken / missing alternator and a/c belt cause starting problems for b18b1? Or do you all think my timing belt is at fault here, which in turn, I should probably start looking for replacement motor? Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

I will be taking the valve covers off later to take a look see at the timing belt, but until then any thoughts on this anyone???

 

Well guys and gals, I finally took the valve cover off, and it looks to be the timing belt that's at fault here. The outer edge of the timing belt is frayed (fiber's are all torn on that side of the belt; maybe 1/16 - 1/8th the total width of the timing belt), but the timing belt is still on the cam gears and still tight / tensioned. What do you all think??? This is probably a stupid question / wishful thinking, but since the belt is still on there tensioned, would it be possible just to change the timing belt? Or the more realistic thing, I am going to need at least a top end rebuild and all. Or swap time: ITR B18C, but really leaning towards K20R.

Man... I'm somewhat down. I mean on one side; I have a real necessity to swap one of the mentioned engines above. On the other hand, I was barely learning the limits of a stock RS on the track / autocross...

 

Well you could give changing the belt a shot man, because either way you wont be wasting money on a new belt because you'll want to use it on your new engine. Id want to do a compression check before you make any crazy decisions. But if the belt is really beat up then even though its still on the cam gears doesn't mean that it didnt just teeth on the gears. Is it really loose?

 

Hey thanks for the reply cnydc2. I'm probably going to give that (changing belts) a shot. The weird thing is that the timing belt is still on there tight and on the cam gears teeth and all lined up. The timing I'm pretty sure is off though; when I try to start the car, the car cranks but does not start. The sound it makes is nothing unusual when trying to start it. The rest of the ignition stuff is on there well (spark plugs, wires, etc.)...

 

Ohhh cnydc2, how reliable would the compression test be since I cannot start and run the engine. My cylinders I believe should not exceed 199psi or be any lower than 135psi, but without it starting what should we be looking for???

 

Its hard to say because with the engine timing off you will probably not get reliable readings (if any at all). But if you have the tools then its worth a shot. Line the mark on the crank pulley up with the arrow on the timing cover and see if the two hash marks on the cam gears line up. If they do then your timing should be ok and a comp test should be good, if not you may of thrown timing and if its really bad then you could of bent some valves. What noise is the engine making when it tries to start?

 

The hashes / timing mark on the gears are completely parallel to each other; I'll get some pics up later today so you all can see what's happening. As far as noise goes when trying to start it, in all honesty, it sounds the same as when it was running. The only difference is that it does not start, lol... The bent valves and all that is what I'm afraid I ended up with.

By the way does anyone know where I would be able to get a reputable and inexpensive b18b head if the inevitable has happened???

 

Prolly just post up on here that you are looking for one man

 

Here it is, compression test pics. I had to hook my battery up to another car to "jump" it since my alternator belt is gone and the battery is pretty much gone. That way I could get a more accurate reading.

The cylinder pics are in order from 1 through 4...

 

Im not really up to date on my comp #'s but you could prolly search for them and find them quick. Knowing that I would say that they look pretty good, at least no major bent valves. The #2 cylinder looks a little low but nothing I'd be really worried about. Have you done a check for spark and a check for fuel? Can you hear your fuel pump prime when you turn the key on?

 

And here are the pics of the timing belt...

 

Wow that looks like hell, did something fall in there? but at least it didnt snap. You should be ok as far as the valves go. I'd do a check for spark and fuel now bro. If it fires up and runs for a while then dies after it gets warm then I'd check your ICM in the dizzy. Post up your results of those tests

 

I'll do those test and probably the timing belt tomorrow... My distributor should be ok because I recently replaced the rotor in it and inspected it; started, spark plugs and wires are also all new. I had an incident were the clutch pad / plastic part located up in the clutch pedal breaking / wearing out, and since this caused ecu to think the car was not in neutral or the clutch was not in, it would not start. In turn I thought that this was related to the above ignition parts that I replaced, lol... I need to check again tomorrow, but I do remember the fuel pump turning on / priming when the key is put it the on position.

Gotta spend some time with the wifey; so I'll do the rest tomorrow while she's in class. LOL, "gotta make 'em happy, or you'll never hear the end of it," but to her credit, she is pretty understanding with us "car guys."

 

If the marks still line up then you are fine. The compression looks good since the engine is cold. Looks like somethin could have fallen in there. Pull off the cover and look to see what happened. Do not turn the crank with out turnin the cams unless needed. If so be easy so you dont bend the valves. If there is any resistance dont force it. With the timing belt off the cams wont turn and the valves can hit. Update when ya find anything out. Atleast post some pics so we can help.

 

Got the cars running guys and gals. If you look at my first post, my battery light came on first which leads me to think that the alternator belt failed first, and when I tried to drive back to the paddocks / pits, this probably caused the a/c belt to fail also. Both belts probably started eating up at the lower timing cover all this time; then the outside portion of the timing belt took the hit. All those belt guts eventually built up behind the crank pulley causing the timing to be off, and this is when my oil light came on. The car eventually stopped, and this thread was started. At least this is what I have deduced from what has happened.

I will have to order a new lower timing cover, and I'll post that as soon as I get one. I will be checking the junk yards and local honda dealers tomorrow to see if anyone has one, and I will finish off the accessory belt installs then. For now I have taken the precaution and not drive the car until the cover comes in.

I "jump" started the car, and it fired the first try. It sounded "healthy," and hopefully it is same to assume that the internals should be ok. Also, no warning lights came on the dash.
Thanks for the replies cnydc2 and 94 ls-r; you all were a big help...

 

Continued...

 

...

 

more...

 

more....

 

LOL... Who would have thought?

 

I'm willing to bet that this engine has crank walk. It has several of the telltale signs.

What sort of clutch pressure plate are you using? Were you getting any rubbing or scraping noises from the left side of the engine that coincided with pushing in and letting out the clutch pedal?

 

As far as I know, the clutch and pressure plate is stock. I just picked up this Integra RS back in April and everything on the car is stock. I am slowly building the car to do track days / auto-cross / time attacks in honor of my late grandfather. But I really wanted to learn the car in stock form first; well with the exception of the password jdm bars... As far as the noise from the clutch, there are non that I can think of, but as soon as I get her running again, I'll pay more attention and look for those "tell-tale signs. I post up the results as soon as I get 'em. Thanks Targa250R...