Hey Hondatech forum,

I have a 98 civic dx with 122k miles, manual transmission, stock everything. Previous owner serviced it religiously at the dealership, and provided records. Timing belt/water pump service was done at 90k. Since purchasing, I've replaced the alternator and the primary o2 sensor, and changed the oil/filter every 3-5k miles (90% of my driving is freeway, long commute to work). Other than that, no problems...until now. Using 5w30 non-synthetic.

Basically, when I first start the car in the morning, it seems to take longer than usual to turn over. Once it gets going, the idle is high (no tach on the dx so I can't give you an rpm, but it's definitely noticeable and higher than it ever used to be), and the engine is noisier than normal. If I give it throttle in neutral or put the car in gear and begin to drive, I get a noticeable ticking/tapping sound from the engine that increases speed with revs - sounds like fingertips rhythmically drumming on a hard surface. You can hear it in the cabin, and it's very noticeable from the outside. Searching youtube brought up spun bearing noise videos and the noise sounds similar.

However - if I let the car idle for 5 minutes before driving, the idle drops, the noise quiets down, there's no tapping/ticking and the motor runs great. The car starts right up if I use it later in the day, with no noise or ticking. Didn't notice any metal shavings in my oil when last changed approx 1k ago. First time I noticed this, I drove around lightly and the noise abruptly stopped - almost like something had been stuck and was now moving freely.

No CEL or oil pressure indicator lights. I don't beat on my car, and it has plenty of power on the freeway; I check my oil level regularly and car does not lose oil, nor has it ever been run low on oil since I've owned it.

Had lately noticed pinging when using 87 octane under acceleration on onramps, so I switched to 91, and it went away. Last two tanks went down to 89 and still no problems. Garage says the timing is set properly.

So, what do you think - is it serious motor damage? (Say it ain't so!) Can I drive this thing safely until I take it to the garage next week? Thanks for your help!!

 

i certainly dont think you are in any immediate danger no. is it the beginning of a rod bearing about to let loose?.. possibly, but it's hard to say for sure. the Y series engines are known to more frequently spin rod bearings, in comparison to the other d-series blocks, which i know won't make you feel any better. take it to the garage you go to i guess and see what words of wisdom they have for you.

 

Hey D16SiHatch, thanks for the reply and encouragement. I'll be taking it into the garage tomorrow night so they can start it up in the morning and hear it for themselves. Hopefully it's something fairly simple!

 

I have been told that that could be valve chatter. When the engine is cold the d series engines' valve make noise but I have heard that it's 'normal.'

Bump for conformation...

 

valve noise ran through my mind but it seemed odd that it would be as loud as he described, accompanied by the higher startup rpm, and the fact that it just started doing it one day when it was fine the day before.

my friends celica had a cold start knock that would basically go away after it had warmed up.. 2 months later it spun a rod bearing

 

My motor does the same thing granted i dont think its as loud as yours but i live in Wisconsin so it gets cold on some mornings and all i do is let it run for a couple minutes and take off...its been doing this for months now...I check and maintain everything. Even beat on it every now and again Im still running. My thoughts were the valves also. Or quite possible the oil be syrupy from being cold and working its way through the motor? lol idk just tossing ideas your way

 

Hey everybody, thanks for the ideas. We'll see! Just left it at the garage tonight so they can start it up cold in the morning and check things out. It drove fine this morning after letting it warm up for 5 minutes as has been my standard protocol ever since I noticed it. It also sounded fine when they checked it out at the garage when I dropped it off, although that was to be expected as the car was plenty warm.

Even when started cold, it doesn't make that awful rattling noise at idle like I've seen in a lot of the vids, only when throttle's applied. Even then, the rattle/tapping is very rhythmic - not the sporadic noises I've heard on the vids. I'm wondering if oil isn't getting to the head as quickly as it should? The roads here suck and I've scraped the bottom of my car once or twice entering and exiting parking lots - read a few posts suggesting a dented oil pan could prevent proper oil pickup. Since I don't have a jack, I couldn't really check. Still, if the oil pressure was low you'd think the oil indicator light would at least be flickering - maybe it is, but not enough to trip the sensor?

Thanks again for all your help - hopefully it's the valves!! I'll let you know what happens tomorrow!

 

Yea mine is very rythmic aswell even when i apply throttle. Keep us posted and good luck!

 

Well....garage fired up the car this morning and heard absolutely nothing. Drove it around, still nothing.

I went to pick up the car later in the day after it'd been sitting for at least 4 hours, and it fired right up, noise free.

How confusing.

Only thing I can think of is I filled up with Shell premium two nights ago instead of plus, which is what I had been using since noticing pinging on acceleration. Could this have anything to do with it???

We'll see if it does it tomorrow...if it does, I'll record the noise and post it here.

 

Yeah I get that everymorning before going to school in my Y8.
I tried using thicker oil, but it stays the same, guessing thats the way it is becuase it's always the same noise level, never gets higher day by day.

 

IF gas is affecting your noise, check your ignition system...when was the last time it got spark plugs?

 

Spark plugs are due soon, will go ahead and replace them and see if things don't get better.

I think things are cool for now, except for the fact that I have to fill the car with premium gas for it to run properly - that's ridiculous. Thanks for all the advice everyone - when/if I get to the bottom of what's actually going on here, I'll be sure to let you know!

 

I don't know if this is your problem but I had a motor that did that and it turned out to be a piston skirt that had colapsed. That made the piston walk in the cylinder and a clicking noise. It was petty loud.But then when the piston would heat up and expand, it would go away. Just throwing that your way.

 

I have a 95 prelude si se. It has 150k miles. I bought the car knowing the engine had a tapping noise. The kid selling it said someone told him it was the valves.

I checked the valve gaps today and all was well. Changed the oil using 20w30 and also added lucas oil supplement. Let the car reach normal temp and the tapping sound did not change. Same loundness.

Any suggestions now before I remove the valve train head? When I was checking the valve gaps i noticed that the rockers did not sit tight on a contact point that the adjustment screw sat on. is that normal? Are the contact points hydraulic lifters?

 

My chevy used to do that in cold weather. Apparently the oil was too thick, and it wasn't getting into one of the hydraulic lifters, causing the lifter to stick, and causing a knocking at startup. After the car warmed up, and the oil thinned out a little and worked its way into the lifter, the noise would go away.

I got an oil change with full synthetic, never heard the noise ever again.

Not saying this will work for your honda, as you do not have hydraulic lifters.

 

I know this is 7 years after the last post on the subject but my 2.3 CL does the same thing (it has 252,000 on it but I replaced the oil pump while doing the timing belt & water pump figuring it might be the culprit). After doing this to no avail, and until I have time to pull the oil pan and plastic-gauge the bearings, I decided to try something to nurse it. I bought a non-chip key and I crank the engine until the oil light goes out (usually about 15-20 seconds). Then I put my chip key in and start it. No knocking at all now at cold startup. And I still run it to 5,000 rpm sometimes and it's relatively quiet. Shame no-one has come up with a definitive solution to the problem but I really believe it's a rod bearing. After a month or so of doing this I decided to change from regular synthetic to Shell Rotella synthetic 5 w 40 (yes it's diesel oil). Now I only have to crank it for 10 seconds in the morning or after it sits for a couple hours. Hope the non-chip key idea helps someone.

 

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