Just got of the phone with the scheduling and i guess since i went almost 3 years ago they have change all the rules!!??

The lady told me the REF does not do the testing any more. Also if your engine is a replacement and is the same size as the original and same year or newer and if it came out of the same type of vehicle as you currently own regardless of origin then you can just go to any test only station to pass. If it is an older engine or different size (liter wise) you have to go to the ref so he can give you a sticker to get your vehicle tested...

I now have a 97' civic with a 98' b16a, im curious if anyone in california has done this recently and can verify??

im waiting for the BAR tech to call me on hopefully monday...

 

guess no one in cali likes to be legal lol...

 

you might get better answers in the regional section

 

sorry but if it's a jdm motor then you are out of luck they will not reff any jdm motors as of April 15th, 2009 of this year. only usdm motors now.

 

time to go b18c1!

 

Not sure where you came up with this info i just got off the phone with my local BAR tech and he said they just dont smog them anymore... Now you have to go for any engine swap and they inspect it to make sure everything is working properly and all emissions compliance systems are intact and functioning.. then you get the sticker and no more being ****ed with by cops...
Then you have to go to a test only smog shop and pass...

so now it costs more than 38 bucks to make your car legal...

 

Ok first of all, I'm not trying to tear YOU apart, I'm trying to tear the new rules apart, because I want to BAR my hatch. So this is what I want to know...

What defines an engine as a "replacement"? Isn't technically ANYTHING you put in the engine bay, from a D15 to a B18 to a chipmunk on a wheel a replacement for what you had before?

Same size as the original? Does that mean a B16 is legitimate to put in my D16Z6 equipped 92 Civic Si? A B16A2 also came out of a Civic, which is the same type of car, so...

 

Ok so I just got off the phone with a friend who just got off the phone with BAR...here's the deal:

-NO MORE BAR STICKERS. EVER! They have ceased to do swap inspections and now the ref station is for when you have, for example, a non-CARB intake and you need to get the ticket written off. So what does this mean? It means that as long as your car has all the necessary smog gear (catalytic converter, charcoal canister, etc, all that stuff we love to hate) and it passes emissions at a test-only station, YOU ARE SMOG LEGAL.

-Most of the same old familiar rules apply, like the engine must be the same year or newer than your car. However, contrary to what's been going around, JDM engines ARE legal and are held to the same standards as USDM engines. However, to make it fully smog legal, you'll have to equip the aforementioned USDM smog gear to it.

-There is some truth to the displacement thing but we aren't exactly sure what the deal with that is. Someone else can chime in with more info.

 

Sorry for any confusion but the first post was not information I received from a TECH but a Scheduling personnel for BAR... She didnt know what she was talking about and i am not sure where you guys are going but the local tech Mike Sheldon told me that they are still doing BAR stickers... they just dont do smog certifications any more... ANY engine can be used as long as it is same year or newer and came out of similar body style... so you still cant bar a B20z....

Must have USDM ecu so for obd2 99+ B16A swaps must be a P2T from 99-00 si...(again what the tech told me) Also must have the same Smog Compliance components as the vehicle, if its JDM/EDM engine, the USDM counter part would come from
which includes all working and functioning O2 sensors, CAT, Vacuum lines connected and routed properly, Evap System, Charcoal Canister, IF necessary FTPS, CKF sensor, and OBDjumper may or may not pass depends on the tech... And timing cant be off by more than +/- 2 degrees

Also they will hook up scan tool to verify all equipment is functioning properly but he said its not necessary if the IM checks have completed... BUT all but 2 must complete and pass for SMOG test....

Not sure about what exactly is considered a replacement as the scheduling lady mentioned, but im assuming the same type of engine your car came with just a different VIN is all she was talking about.... She didnt even know what SOHC and DOHC were...

He did tell me that Any JDM engine swap will have to be BAR certified first and you will get a sticker before you can go smog it...

If I find out more I will post back...

 

Very interesting that you say they are still doing BAR stickers, because my buddy called the ref today (in San Bruno I believe it was) and they said the swap inspection has been completely done away with.

 

i want to know whats up with displacment i got 94 hatch with jdm h22a alsmost complete and my brother told me that its illegal now and im confused now, reading whats on top, i got confused, let us know who ever knows more or goes out to ref their car. I want to know if its still ok to have jdm h22a it came out from 92-96 car and both hatch and motor obd1 its just different displacment.

 

This **** is so confusing lol..


I dont get the part about the intake though.. So if someone gets reffed for intake, they can get it cARB legal?

 

what you guys have up is confusing me, this is what has been going on in the link below unless they have changed it in the last few day then that would be nice. but i havent heard anything new saying that it has been change or updates as of what they amended in april 15, of 09

https://honda-tech.com/forums/northern-california-86/ref-2548342/

 

No.

Let's say you're rolling around with your eBay intake, no CARB EO number. You get your hood popped and then you get a ref ticket for your illegal intake. In order to clear the ticket, you either have to return to stock OR buy a CARB legal intake, then you take your fixed car to the referee and he signs off your ticket.

 

if i can get an appointment im going to ref my car in a week... ill ask about the h22 swaps and such when i talk to the tech... about the intakes any "open element" type intake is illegal in the state of california unless there is a carb eo number provided with it... im going to the ref at Antelope Valley College in Lancaster CA... his name is Michael Sheldon...

 

and that whole displacement thing is only for a replacement engine so you dont have to get your car reffed... and it is only information i was told by a scheduling lady so i dont think she really knew what she was talking about...

 

I didnt read all of this because theres alot of back and forth stuff, i dont feel like reading all that. So this is what i know from personal experience from my most recent test (in may 2009). I just recently tested an ITR motor into a 00 civic. Whats going on is that because of the state budget alot of the smog stations are getting shut down and the ones that are staying open are getting double the work. The guy i normally go to is taking double the work which gives less PR time, which is ok but if you fail they cant talk to you about it as much as before.

All the rules still apply. If your running a B16 motor you need to convert it to 99-00 for the ecu. You are allowed to use jumper harness as long as the scanner can read it. Get an OBD2A-OBD2B jumper harness and borrow a scanner. See if that reads, if it does you should be fine. But all the old rules still apply!

 

All these rules and regulations are so funny, it's probably quite counter productive from cali's perspective if they really think about it.

 

I just got my hatchback bared,

Rules still apply, only JDM engines are illegal.
Visual only, they do not put your car on the dyno.
I was only there for 30 minutes and got my sticker.

98 hatch with a 98 b18c1.
tech verified wiring, verified cat, verified ECU, hooked up a scanner to ECU.
and that was it.
Hell I almost failed because I had a greddy carb sticker for the turbo kit,
and he was looking for it.
Hope this helps you.

 

Due to some misinformation, and exaggeration; people across the country think the California style smog laws are the end of engine swaps. Even in California, many automotive enthusiasts believe it is against the law to perform engine swaps.

The basic intent of the California engine change laws is that when you do an engine swap, the new engine/transmission cannot pollute more than the original engine/transmission. This means the newly installed engine must be the same year (or newer) as the vehicle, and all emissions controls on the newly installed engine must be installed and functional. Also, you can't put a heavy-duty truck engine (over 6000 lb GVW) into an small size truck or car because heavy-duty truck engines have less stringent emissions limits than light duty trucks and cars.

To get your engine swap approved, you must go to a Referee Station. The Referee Inspection is less than $40, and it is a benefit for people who do smog-legal engine changes because the engine change can be approved on a visual inspection, current smog laws, and common sense.

The Referee Station will visually inspect the vehicle and engine/transmission for all the proper smog equipment, and inspect the engine to be sure it is the same year (or newer) as the vehicle. If all is there, they will put an "Engine Identification"tag in the door jamb. The "Engine Identification"tag is not mentioned on any registration papers or ownership papers. It is only on the vehicle.

If your vehicle does not pass the visual inspection, and you feel it should, you can have the Referee Inspector call the engineering office for a ruling. If the engineering office fails your vehicle and you think it should pass, you can always run it through the California Air Resources Board (CARB) for a full Federal Test Procedure (FTD), but that can cost you several thousand dollars, and your vehicle may still fail. Remember, the Referee Inspection program is a benefit for people who do engine swaps.

The California smog laws on engine swaps (or engine changes) are consistent with common sense, safety, and emissions reduction.

The EPA recognizes California smog laws as being applicable across the nation. That is, if it is legal in California, then according to the EPA, it is legal in all other states. While some states do not yet necessarily agree with this, it is likely that most states will come around to the California way. Other states with pollution problems will likely be adopting the California smog laws because there has been a tremendous amount of time and money invested in making the California smog laws reasonable, consistent, and effective for pollution reduction. It is far cheaper for other state governments to adopt the California laws rather than come up with their own laws. When the smog laws are consistent across the nation, there will be far less confusion for all involved.
THE INSPECTION PROCEDURE

Let's assume you have done a California smog-legal engine change to your vehicle. You have installed an engine that is the same year (or newer) as your vehicle, with all of the required smog equipment and controls for both the engine and transmission. The chassis has the correct emissions controls: Catalytic converter, charcoal canister, and fuel filler restrictor (if required). Your next step is to visit a "referee station."

The DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) can get you the phone number required to make an appointment with the referee station. When you call to make the appointment, the person on the phone will ask you why you need to go to the referee station. Your answer will be, "Engine change."If you say, "Engine swap"or "V8 conversion,"the person on the phone may not know what you are talking about, so please, just say "engine change."

Next, the person will ask for your name, address, and the vehicle's license number. You will then get an appointment date, which can range anywhere from the very next day, to five weeks away. Some areas have appointments on Saturdays if that is more convenient for you. Within a few days, you will receive a postcard in the mail confirming your appointment date, and it will tell you to bring the vehicle's registration papers and any other smog-related paperwork that you may have.

When you arrive at the referee station, be polite, be honest, and be patient. The inspectors rarely see engine swaps. They usually see stock vehicles that have failed the smog inspection. The inspectors are a lot like police officers—they are highly trained, and the public only sees them when there is a problem. Remember, it is their job to make sure your vehicle is smog legal. For all they know, you could be an undercover inspector, so don't expect the inspector to let anything slide, because his job may be at stake.

The inspectors have a general training in smog inspection, and will not necessarily be an expert on the type of engine in your car. They see just about everything ever built, so they cannot be expected to be an expert on every vehicle's smog equipment.

The inspection takes anywhere from 30 minutes to over one hour, depending on the inspector and the type of "engine change."Some inspectors will want to be left alone with your vehicle, others may ask for your assistance in locating devices such as the charcoal canister, vehicle speed sensor, or the wiring for the lock-up torque converter. The inspector will check ignition timing and EGR operation.

If your vehicle passes the visual inspection, a sticker will be placed in the door jamb or engine compartment (see next page).

If your vehicle does not pass the visual inspection, you will be given a form explaining what your vehicle will need to pass the inspection. You will need to correct the problem(s) listed on the form and make another appointment with the referee station.

After the visual inspection, the vehicle will be given the tailpipe (or sniffer) test. The tailpipe test is quite lenient. If your vehicle cannot pass the tailpipe test, something is wrong, or your engine has been modified a lot. Generally, a vehicle's tail pipe emissions will be about 1/3 of the allowable standards if it is running decently.

If your vehicle passes the visual inspection and the tail pipe test, you will get the smog inspection certificate ($7 fee) so that you can register your vehicle. The certificate has no indication of the "engine change,"and is the same type of certificate that "normal" vehicles receive for passing the inspection.

We at JTR really do believe in running clean cars. We are located in a high smog area and we see (and smell) the smog in the air almost every day. Now that we have the technology to make cars perform well and run clean, lets make an effort to keep OUR air clean.

The sticker in the door jamb (below) allows the car to be subsequently tested at any smog inspection station. It gives the following information on what smog equipment the vehicle requires.

Explanation of Sticker Contents:
VIN No. Serial number of the vehicle TAC Thermostatic Air Cleaner
YR. Year of the engine (not the vehicle) AIS Air Injection System
SIZE Engine size EVP Evaporative Controls (charcoal canister)
MFG Manufacturer of the engine FR Fuel Filler Restrictor (unleaded gas)
F/C Federal/California smog requirements OC Oxidizing Catalytic Converter
M/A Manual/Automatic transmission TWC Three-Way Catalytic Converter
SITE Where the car was inspected EGR Exhaust Gas Recirculation
B/A Before/After. If the engine was installed before March of 1984, it may not need any smog controls
SPK Spark (distributor) controls
COM Computer
NOX NOx Emission Controls C/I Carburetor/Injection
PCV Positive Crankcase Ventilation OTH Other smog controls


BUY THE BOOK

For the best information on smog laws in California, go to your local Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) office, and purchase the Smog Check Inspection Manual. To find one near you, look in the phone book in the "State Government Offices" section, under "Automotive Repair Bureau". This book is filled with valuable information, and it has important phone numbers should you have any questions about your swap. Cost of the book is less than $20.

 

btw seeing the ref is free right now. I didn't pay a single cent.

 

I know it used to cost like 28 bucks to get reffed and like 8 bucks to get the smog cert but that was before they changed everything and no longer do smog tests... Last time i went was about 2 and a half years ago... that is awesome if it no longer has a fee!!

 

just got my 92 vx hatch w/98 gsr converted to obd1 reff'ed last month in sacramento, california, i asked the reff if it mattered that my motor was a obd2 but i converted it to obd1 he said no as long as i had all the obd1 emission parts on with a obd1 gsr ecu and cat then i was good...i really didn't even converted the gsr to obd1 i just dummie some of the wires to make it look like it was obd1, ex: add and extra plug for the dizzy to make it look like the obd1 dizzy because obd2 gsr dizzy only has 1 plug, add another plug to the shock tower so all plugs plug up, got an obd1 (mushroom? don't know what it's called it sits on top to the im) and just repin the plugs so it'll fit to the obd1 (mushroom), broke off a piece of my old fishing pole and pluged it to the throttle body so one of the vacume line from the canister has a place to go, i even had an obd2 cat on also i just bung the secondary o2 out...and i didn't pay a cent, got my bar sticker, went stright to smog station and passed with flying colors...both tech's that where there were impress with my swap, i do think that they use a sniffer becasue i heard them turn my car on for about 15 min, but u can't watch them...and they don't tell u much, they only tell u if u passed or fail, if u failed they do tell u what u need to fix, BUT the tech told me that even if i did fail they would of still gave me my sticker all i had to do was fix it then smog...i don't have to bring the car back to them

 

They turn your car on to verify the timing, but congrats for passing. It feels real good to be legal doesn't it? =D

 

ooooo yea........now i just smile at cops when i pass them by...sometimes i kinda want them to pull me over just so i can slap the bar sticker in there face...lol