Hi all, I have a 97 JDM spec accord EX, NON-ABS, front disc, rear drum. I was wondering what affordable upgrades I could do to the braking system to improve stopping power. I know the most practical solution would be to install a big brake kit, but I dont think I have the $$ required for such a job right now, especially when considering I would need to replace the rims..

I bought some good quality Wagner Edge pads, so I assume that should help a little bit on the braking, my tyres are in good condition as well..
Two of the upgrades I was considering was to move from DOT3 fluid to ATE super blue racing dot4 fluid.. not sure if it will help in the stopping but will definitely reduce the risk of brake fade..
Another upgrade I am considering but need advice on, is converting all my brake lines to braided alluminium. It will cost about $120 for the lines, and I was wondering if this will actually assist in stopping the car more quickly, or if it will simply just adjust the pedal feel..

In the back of my mind, I always wanted to convert the rear into disc, but I dont think it will be practical, how much will it really adust the stopping power? Wouldnt I be better off upgrading the front and leaving the drum setup on the back?

Thanks

 

First of all you don't have a 97 "JDM Spec" Accord.
Second, go into the FYI thread and read about all the upgrades you can do about brakes.

 

For the record, I DO have a JDM spec accord, RHD and all.. not everyone on this site is from the US i'm sure you know... If you wanted to confirm mine is JDM I can even give you the VIN.. just look at the engine code.. F20B2.. tell me if that was ever sent to the US?


thanks for your help anyway

 

-Better pads
-Power slot rotors or Brembo blanks
-Rear disc swap from same chassis
-Prelude VTEC front Rotors with:
a.Semi-loaded caliper swap from 6th gen V6 Accord
b.Semi-loaded dual-pisotn caliper swap from Legend GS

 

my slotted Rotora rotors and hawk HPS pads will be arriving today. Hoping to see an improvement when they get installed

 

Can you lock up your wheels? If so (and you should be able to), your not going to stop any faster no matter what you do, besides getting sticker tires. Period.

Brake upgrades are all in an effort to reduce brake temps when your on them hard - like when on track. With a big brake kit and better pads the pedal will feel better, but ultimately you are traction limited on how fast you can stop.

 

Hi Voodoo, without ABS I can very much lockup if I go on the brakes full ...
I was hoping to improve this stopping power and the stopping power when im not locked up.. i assume better cooling will mean less brake fade in real life.. not only on the track

what about the stainless steel or aluminium lines, how will that help?

Thanks

 

Define stopping power, because I'm not sure what your referring to.

Brake fade is when you overheat the pads and the pedal just goes to the floor. I highly doubt you can do that on the street, especially in Florida where there aren't any hills.

I'm not sure they even make braided aluminum lines, but stainless lines will just make the pedal firmer by removing some of the compliance in the system.

And as I said before, ultimately you are traction limited on how fast you can stop. You can have 20 inch brakes with sandpaper for brake pads, but once your wheels lock up you can't stop any faster. Google "threshold braking" and practice this if you really want to stop faster.

 

Pics of said RHD Accord. Plus your location is in Florida.
Don't know many accords in FL thàt are RHD.
The FYI section should show you a lot of different types of brake upgrades you can do. From upgrading your current rotors to a 12.6 rotor and RL 4pot calipers

 

I am currently located in Tampa, FL, so is my Volvo, my accord is back in the caribbean where I spend about 4 months a yr, Chasis designation CD4, Engine code F20B2, RHD

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s...IMG_4285-1.jpg
http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s...ias/PIC001.jpg

Sorry for the bad quality pics but the first was before I changed the lights last yr and the second I had my sister take back home just to show you..


I am well aware of what brake fade is, The accord in question is not in florida but in Trinidad (Caribbean) and brake fade has happened to me once coming down a winding mountain road (had to use the E-brake to stop the car and I was already in 1st to slow it).. a very scary experience... I really have no intention of letting something like that happen again...

When I stay stopping power, I guess I mean a combination of pad bite, pedal response, and the ability to slow the car in less time than it currently can

Yes the wheels lock when I press the pedal hard but I have learned to modulate it to the point where it locks, but not exceeding that.. making the stopping on my current system as efficient as it can be without any upgrades .. hence why I would like upgrades

 

I will probably hold off on the upgraded lines until I know if I will be doing the rear conversion or not..

in the meantime though, I think I should change the original rotors on the car.. theyhave been machined about 3 times so far and are probably due for changing anyway... the question is what to go with..
ATE slotteds will run me about $115 a pair.... brembo sport either drilled or slotted will run me about $130 a pair as well and the brembo blanks will be about $75 a pair...

which of the above will offer the most benefits? I am leaning towards the slotteds for use with ceramic pads (probably Wagner edge until those are worn, then switch to akebono or possibly hawk) ..

also, are there any real upgrades that can be done on drum brakes short of conversion to disc?

 

Having rear disc is more cosmetic than performance.

Put Brembo BLANKS you have no need for anything else. I tracked my Accord with an H22 swap and had just blanks and had no brake fade or issues stopping.

Get a better pad - Hawk makes good ones

Upgrade to SS lines

Update to the ATE Super Blue

Replace MC with a new OEM one

Without ABS you need to learn to brake correctly instead of just mashing on the brake, I suggest you take classes.

 

well as I mentioned before, I have learned to take the car to the lockup threshold and keep it there.. once I learned the limits of the braking system I adjusted my driving style to suit.. so I modulate the pedal well, preventing locking up..

The SS lines I am definitely going to do, just needed to figure out which brand to go with.. im thinking goodridge but its hard to find reviews..
Raceshopper.com is probably my main source for all the parts... seem like an honest and very helpful site.

 

I used Earl's on my car and they came with everything and fit fine.

You can also look at the Legend or NSX caliper swap - refer to Accord FAQ. I wrote a DIY for NSX calipers and larger rotors in there somewhere.

 

well i was thinking about that actually, because rather than put the money into a rear conversion, it would probably be better off upgrading the front with new calipers and rotors etc... how much you think we will be talking for the legend or nsx upgrade?

what I cannot figure out, is exactly what size rotor will fit on my stock 15" rims..
I dont really have the cash to upgrade rims and tyres so im trying to figure out what size rotor will fit in the stock.. I guess I will look into this and see if I can upsize the fronts as an option... also will check out some local scrapyards just to get an idea on if the rear drum to disc conversion is feasible price wise or not.. I have an excellent mech who can do it, its just for me to source the parts

pretty much made up my mind to use the ATE superblue as well, the brembo lcf600 is probably a better fluid but its over 3x the price and I dont think I can justify that on an accord...

 

I fit NSX calipers, 11.1" Accord Wagon Rotors w/ Accord V6 brackets and Accord Earl's SS lines behind 96 ITR wheels with a 5mm spacer.

It's an incredibly close clearance but you have no issues. If you use a 3mm spacer you won't need longer studs. 5mm + is pushing it on stock studs.

Legends aren't too expensive - NSX obviously more expensive.

But you gain 1" in rotor diameter and much improved stopping. If you go that route replace the MC at the same time to save yourself the trouble later.

 

Decided that considering the budget and the fact that the car is in a different country, im going to start with what I know works...

Bought a pair of brembo slotted sport rotors for the fronts , got them on sale for about $110 (pair) and will get those on along with a ATE super blue flush.
Next step, going to check the feasibility of a rear disc conversion, if feasible, thats stage 2, if not, then I will upgrade the lines for drum rears..

stage 3, if im not pleased enough with the results, will be caliper upgrading...
Still dont plan on changing the rims because I have other places I could spend that money...

When I am due for a tyre change, I will fork out a bit more for some AA tractions.. I have them on the volvo and they would suit my driving style on the accord quite nicely..

 

i see very informative and usefull replies about making the braking system opperate better.

one thing i didn't see was eliminating weight. (this is a touchy subject for guys who have a hard time grasping the idea of an aggregate sum). less weight reduces traction needed to stop, and in turn allows you to stop "harder" or shorter without locking up. just something to think about..

i'll leave the researching of weight reduction up to you, if you feel so inclined.

 

well as mentioned earlier... weight reduction is something I am not willing to undertake right now... consider that it is not a track car, I weigh ~265 lbs (not fat, im 6 foot 4 or 6 foot 5) and then why fight so hard to save 10 or 20 lbs? What in the car is worth removing to make it still viable as a daily driver.. i only am around the car 3 or 4 months a yr to drive it, rest of the time other family members use it so I dont want to strip it out too much..

Anyway I'll keep everyone posted with updates.. thanks for all the help and advice so far... I have a plan of action which is always a good start..

 

As mentioned though, a DD is not a car you want to be doing weight reduction on.

 

Ok everyone, so the final decisions have been made and I purchased all my products..
MY COMPLETE BRAKE JOB - ALL EBAY PURCHASES INCLUDE 10% CASHBACK
1. Brembo Sport Slotted Rotors (front) ~$110 (ebay)

2. Hawk HPS Street Pads $55 ebay + (a free bottle of motul 600 fluid which i'll probably sell for about $15).
Chose these over the brembo sport pads because I called both tirerack and buybrakes and both recommended it over the brembos for my purposes..

3. Goodridge G-Stop Lines - Buybrakes.com $103 after $10 discount and free shipping

4. ATE superblue fluid (2L exported to Trinidad where the car is).. $ 30 inc shipping

5. Just regular maintainance on the drums , Wagner Thermoquiet shoes.. not sure anything else I can do here $3 after MIR ($18-15)


As spares, I have two brand new Wagner Edge Ceramic pads for the fronts in case the hawks dont please me.. if not, the wagners are still brand new.. i'll sell em to break even at least (factor in the $15 rebate on that as well when I bought it)


Thanks for all the help and advice, really appreciated...
I strongly considered the upsizing front rotors but I wasnt sure it'll fit in my stock wheels, also considered the legend of NSX calipers but considering the car is in a different country that might be a bit if an issue if I see any problems..
Lastly, Just for the amusement of it, i'll look into a rear conversion but unlikely i'll actually do it..

what percentage of the car's braking force do you think actually ends up going thru the rears?


Thanks again for all the advice and help, would have been pretty hopeless without yourl....
When I get it all on in a month or so, i'll let you all know how it turned out.. I can try some not so scientific testing, measuring braking distance on the road or something haha