Hey everyone, currently, I have a 99 coupe si. I feel it is time to start building it up. The stock b16 has around 112,000 miles on it. However, I have to put in 2 quarts of oil per week, I do not think the oil has ever been changed in the vehicle, and the entire engine and transmission are totally covered in oil. So, my dilemma is choosing what the best build will be for this vehicle. I have not decided if I plan on going all-motor or adding forced induction, so what would be the best bet for building up and deciding later on whether to go all-motor or forced induction. I would assume the b18 c5 is most likely the best way to go all around, but is it really worth it? If I had to go with a lesser build, what is best? Which provides the most horse, and torque? What does the b18c5 do that is so much more coveted?

The choices I have been looking at are currently:

b18c5
h22
b18 ls/vtec
b16 ls/vtec
b18 with b20 block
b16 with b20 block
b16 (just keep what I have and hope I can rebuild it)

Can anyone help me out with making this decision, but also explain to me why I should do so and what specs each one may provide on average. If the best choice would be the b18c5, what would be the next best bet?

Thanks to everyone out there for helping.

 

bump

 

Please check out the FAQ for detailed info on this, or any subject before posting.

I will answer you question to an extent though.

If you can afford a B18c5, go for it. You are looking at a few grand at least all said and done. Great engine (Its the ITR engine, hand built by Honda techs), but really expensive.

The B18c1 (GS-R engine) is a good choice. Will cost you, but can be cheaper than the ITR or H22 swap. Would be my next choice personally.

H22 can make a lot of power, but its heavy and can be expensive to build up. Also can be hard (or just time consuming) for some to fit in their car. Would be my third choice. I actually like this motor a bit more than the B18c1 but just not in a Civic. Personal thing.

Thats all I'm gonna compare. I personally think that you SHOULD swap to something else. B16 is a good engine, but I just think its really overrated. Just doesn't make the power that the three I covered above will for a DOHC. My 2 cents.

 

B18C5 or B18C1

I do like the B16A, but it's just not enough engine for an EM1. IMHO B16s are only good for light chassis like hatches.

 

Any idea on average horsepower output for any of these engines?

 

Go h22. The cost of it is not much more than the b18c1 and not much heavier as everone thinks. The most potential for high power, and pretty cost effective.

 

*waits for war to begin*

 

When building ls/vtec builds, is there much of a difference between using a b18 or b16 head? or are they pretty equal?

 

the only thing the B18 has over the B16 is the chambers (for the valves) it has less of a chance for detonation.. beside that the B16 has more parts available and if your engine is built right you wont have any worries of detonation.. B16 heads are cheaper and their the same cast as the B18c5 only diffrence their is the cams intake manifold and the head has a slight hand port job done .. so thats why i say stay away from the c5.. its a great motor.. if you just want a B18 but if you wanna do something with it for get about what it came out of and just look at the base of it.. cause your changing everything anyways right?
H22s are nice yes ill give you that.. but thats about it.. their good for preludes and accords not civics.. alot of poeple do it but the price your pay on getting an H22 in your civic and making it fast isnt worth it.. i can take the same amount it takes you to put an H22 in your civic and make it "fast" into my civic with a B16ls vtec and ill blow you outta the water.. the H and F series has extra **** that you dont need in a motor especially a 4cyl but good luck with your build

 

oh yes the war begins haha. Deff do some research though, they'res some many of these floating, i say go h2b (h22 motor with b series trans) really hard to beat. you can easily get into 12's with bolt on's, tune, and a good set of slicks. Theres guys that go internal with type s pistons i think and some pro-series or blox cams and get in the 11's i believe. They're a cheap k killer. Some people flame on the weight, theres a good weight comparison here somewhere, but it only weighs around 200 more than a b series (i think that was pallet weight of a whole swap and not just motor though). No different than having a passenger. stock 160 tq is hard to beat as well. Sure you could go with a b20 block, but they have thin walls so boost isnt a great idea. Yes the h22's are frm lined from factory so your only option for pistons is mahle golds (not all that bad, people are 50/50 on them, although theres one guy putting down close to 500hp with them) unless you sleeve it. But still the h has .2 more over the b20. h22 can also go to a 2.5 (technically a 2.45 or something with a crower kit). You really need to research though, im just a h motor bias haha

 

bump

 

Im not going to start bashing b's but, a few things should be straightened. If a person does a swap their self. The h2b can be done for 2500, a b16 at the least would be that much and with b18c1's ect the price will be higher. Secondly, you cant say " can take the same amount it takes you to put an H22 in your civic and make it "fast" into my civic with a B16ls vtec and ill blow you outta the water.." because then i could say, for as much as it takes you to do a ls/v i can take that and put it in my h2b and burn you a new one buddy. Also, if these 2 swaps are already done, putting the same amount of money in each...i think the h would take it, thats me though. Thirdly with a h22a, the only thing you dont need is the balance shafts, the kaizen balance shaft removal kit is like 120, and that free's up around 8-12hp, so thats put you at 210hp STOCK eh? Only thing wit usa h22's is the emissions on top of that which can be removed, and booth have secondaries which can also be removed

 

So based on the fact that I already have the b16, would I be better off buying a whole new swap or just rebuilding what I have? Would I be better off keeping the b16 and putting the money I would have put into buying a new engine into my b16, or even going ls/vtec with my head? Or would I be better off buying the h22? Because by looking at the cost of the b18's, I think I would be better off building up a b16, by what it costs plus what I would end up with performance wise.

 

If you have the money, go K. Well worth it. If not, I just go with a gs-r motor.

 

since you already have a b16 it would be cheaper to just build that

 

i agree with everything u sed except for the h22 weight its ONLY 35 pounds heavier,

 

Build your current motor, take it out, rip it down and build it, that way you know exactly what your getting yourself into, you know how it was when you took it out and you are semi familiar with it.

 

Ok, thank you all for your input. Last question. I have a lot of people around my area telling me that I should get a ls block, use my head, and rebuild everything. What would this do for me? How much horsepower difference would this allow, as well as torque? Overall, what difference would I have by changing my b16 block with an ls block?

 

You would have an ls/v...

If I were in your shoes, I would go with the c5. Less questions, less confusion, less work, reliability. Consider this site a book. You should read first and do your research like everyone said.

 

for the ls/v just get the golden eagle kit, theyve done their research and it makes it easy. I wouldnt go with a c5 just because of the cost and if you want boost later thats not too practical with the compression of a c5

 

LS/VTEC is a good and strong set-up, if built correctly. There's a thread on here explaining everything you need to do to build a reliable LS/V, and the correct way to break it in. I'd suggest getting an B18C1 block, use your B16 pistons and have yourself a good, slightly higher than stock (I think), high compression motor.

 

k20a.

/thread

 

Because, I don't know... hmmm... insurance fraud? Maybe?

Freakin 09s...

 

Don't mind that guy. 4cylr4women is one of those guys that just trolls forums because they have nothing better to do in life. Look at his 2 posts. Maybe he should light himself on fire? lol

 

Id go turbo b20vtec password jdm is having a sale on b20bs at550 for a long block put ur b16 head on top and then get a cheap turbo kit (not ebay crap) boost at like 6-9 lbs and have fun. Just my .02
Eddie