Hey everyone, Im not so much new to the site, just a new actual member. Im more of a reader then a poster.

Im going to admit already, im not as mechanical savy as many of the people on here. I do work at O'Donnell Honda here in Baltimore at their body shop so I have been learning things along the way from the mechanic.

I recently came across the F20B from the Euro R and instantly fell in love with it. My car has the F23 Ulev and has 205,000 original miles on her along with the auto transmission. It burns a little oil, and the transmission has its moments once in a great while, but the mechanic said its in pretty good shape. But I figured its gettiing up there so i may as well start looking for a new engine/transmission.

I know that the H22 can be swapped for my F23 and Im pretty sure the H22 and F20B are very similar in layout and can be swapped in place of my F20B.

My main questions are here.... Can my F23 be swapped for the F20B? And how difficult is it to convert my auto into a manual because I know the auto F20B is 20hp slower because of the camshafts and throttlebody.

And what all additional parts will I need to do this swap. I am assuming the wiring harness, along with the ECU, but what else would I need besides those two basic parts?

Please fill me in with everything you guys can give me!!

Thanks in advance
-Shayne

 

less torque too because of less displacement than h22

 

So I have and F23A4 and this morning I just bought an F20B Euro R. Does anyone have any info on this engine?

 

why did you buy an engine if you know nothing about it??

 

I've heard that the F20B has power and is a good swap for the F23A1 but I was hoping to get info on how hard it is to actually pull off. What all do i need to do? The guy from the company said I could use my same wiring harness and all I had to go was buy an H22 ecu

 

swap is same as h22, i believe it redlines at 9k, and it has a little less torque than h22.

auto to manual swap, need lots of parts, manual drive axles, tranny, clutch kit, shift linkage, clutch pedal, manual brake and auto pedal (because mounted on same plate) or just replace manual brake pedal (its a bitch, tight space), center console, motor mounts, many little bolts, nuts, and washers, manual starter, etc. there are a few auto to manual swaps on HT, search, even though different models of cars, same process.

 

I already have a manual that was converted from an automatic but is it possible to turbo an F20b?

 

yes, anything can be turbo'd

 

yea I was worried about that because of the high compression ratio. But my question is exactly what type of ecu do I need?

 

F20B is not the Euro-R motor. The Euro-R motor is H22A7. The F20B is from the Accord Torneo SIR.

 

Sooo much ignorance and misinformation in this thread...


It still has another 100k left in it! lol Have you considered starting with just the manual swap? It's a night and day difference, and would leave much less room for things to go wrong than doing everything at once.


They are the same in regards to parts required for the swap.


Yes, it's the same as an H22 swap.

Not terribly difficult. There are numerous write-ups for this procedure. Your best bet is to find a salvaged manual accord, and loot everything you need from it so you're not missing pieces.

What does that have to do with the auto to manual swap?


The best advice anyone can give you for a motor swap is to just use the harness that CAME WITH the car, not the motor. Adapt and overcome.


FTL The F20B is basically a destroked H22 with iron sleeves instead of FRM, aggressive cams, and a longer flatter power band.




With the right transmission I suppose it could be a 'good' swap, but H22's are cheaper and have more power, so the F20B is more of a novelty. The F20B has less displacement, so less torque which is what the heavy 6th gens need. The one good thing is that the powerband extends to much higher RPMs, which is great for shorter gears, which you'll need to make up for the less torque.

QFT.


Yes, but the higher compression makes tuning much more difficult. You won't get by with a simple VAFC or piggyback system. If you wanted to boost, the F23 is a great platform to do so because it's low(er) compression, and has a large stroke for a nice torquey powerband. You could also boost an F23 for less than the cost of an F20B, and even and H22 swap.

Any VTEC compatible OBD1 ECU that has been socketed and chipped with a basemap for your engine setup. (P28, P61, P72 etc)

QFT.

 

The only difference in the automatic f20b and the manual f20b is the manual has type s cams and a 65 millimeter throttle body which gives it about twenty more horse power. have you already bought the motor or are you trying to figure out what you are going to do.

 

Hey guys, thanks for the great info.

I havent purchased the motor yet which is why I cam here first to get as much knowledge on it as I can. I wont be doing the swap by myself, my boss, Matt Pratt who actually was the Burnt Orange Civic type R hatch with the LSVTECH in one of the recent Honda Tuning magazines will be helping me.

I was planning on doing some engine modifications anyways, so I dont think it would be a huge deal for me to get the Automatic version of the engine anyways as I will be going for more of a small all motor build.

I would like to do the auto to manual swap, but im not sure about it. And I know the engine has a bit left in it but I will be walling off the accord soon because I am sponsored for car Audio so an engine with a little more "mmmfph" would be nice to help with the weight issues.

 

Hey I've got a 1998 Honda Accord EX Coupe with a stock F23A1 engine and I've already bought an F20B engine to swap into it (enough with how much of a backwards decision that was) my question is just what ecu do I need to use for this to get the best power? I was told to use a p13 (H22)ecu but with my car being obd2 I'm not exactly sure. Any info on this would really help...what do I use???

 

[quote=2000AccordI would like to do the auto to manual swap, but im not sure about it. And I know the engine has a bit left in it but I will be walling off the accord soon because I am sponsored for car Audio so an engine with a little more "mmmfph" would be nice to help with the weight issues.[/quote]

Some will argue, but I would almost say the F20B with an auto would almost be SLOWER than the stock F23A4 with the same transmision because of torque.

IMO, if you're adding more weight to the car you need more torque, which going down to 2.0L is NOT going to give you. Even with better gearing, you're starting off two steps behind.

 

To get the best power you need to be able to tune, which means you need an OBD1 ECU that you can socket, chip, and have tuned like the ones I already mentioned.

Buy an OBD1 to OBD2B ECU conversion harness so you can use the OBD1 ECU with your stock OBD2B engine harness. The F20B's are OBD2 IIRC, so your engine harness plugs should match up just fine to the motor. The most work you'll have to do is convert to a 2-wire IACV, repin a couple pins on the conversion harness for the O2 sensor and possibly coolant temp sensor, and maybe extend one or two wires for the plugs to reach.

All this has been covered in other threads, and the answers to your questions can be found there by searching.

 

try and find a PCB ecu that is the dohc f20b ecu, unless you plan to mess around with it other then intake header and exhaust, if so then go with one of the ones AFAccord said, use an h22 header, im not sure what all will need to be done to make it mate up to the CG exhaust but i did this swap on a 4th gen and am using an M2F4, if your planning on modding it, you can use H22 valvetrain parts minus the valves, they are smaller and cut at a sharper angle then the h22 valves, for replacement parts check out www.autodynamics-honda.com well that hard to find ones anyways like head gasket, and if your going obd1 use an h22 intake mani also

 

so anyone have a F20B 6th gen ... i'm curious as to how it performs with the lack of torque

 

i have a 2002 accord sedan in the process of getting f20b installed, i'll let you know when i'm done with mine. sure seems everywhere you go everybody tries to talk someone out of going with the f20b. the reason i chose the f20b is it's going to just drop in in place of my f23a1. i'm using the ecu from the f20b and my current wiring harness(which will be modded accordingly) so i don't throw any codes or have a crappy driving experience. i'm telling you every single forum except for one has told anyone asking the f20b question the same thing, just put an h22a, regardless of the question. most guys wouldn't even get an answer to their question because everyone would start screaming "why?" and convincing the dude to go with the h22a. it would be nice for a fella to come to a forum ask a question and get an answer, wouldn't it? there are alot of things for the f20b that if ever need to be replaced or if you want mods you can find them in the h or f series and they will work. there now is a company online that offers a complete gasket makeover(head gaskets and others if needed) for the f20b, it's a company out of japan and will sell to us saps in the u.s.a. i just read this thread and thought it honestly could have been alot shorter without all of the h22a and unnecessary jibberish that had nothing to do with his actual question. AFAccord stepped in with answers. i went for the f20b for the reason it drops straight in, it's pretty much made for my car. if my car was in japan, this is the motor/tranny it would have been built with, so why not go with it?

 

you should make your own thread for ur swap ... im curious to see how it goes ... i was going to go the f20b and throw some jun cams and what not but it's a little too pricey for me

 

Ive got a stock f20B (sir-t). its manual. remember, SiR is auto and SiR-T is manual. there are stuff in f20b that are not present in h22a and vice versa. I would say, for daily car. F20b is alright. less gas consumption i suppose. torque wise, yeap h22a is an advantage, but i think its only about 1000rpm advance than F20b which i dont think it would be a factor for a car in daily use. if you are going on track you could still use F20B for 2.0 -below engines only and just build your F20B engine. If you haven't bought an F20B engine yet, i would suggest ask first if that F20B is came out off from SiR-T. and buy it with its manual transmission because gear ratio could affect torque as well. If you want more torque out of that F20B then buy an aftermarket final drive change http://www.teammfactory.com/products...%20Gears&mod=H. There are lots of stuff that we could discuss about power in regarding with that engine. If you are driving on a circuit/track or what ever. you could easily beat a stock h22a with driving skills. but on drag racing, launching is a factor. for me, they are just both engines with a little bit of difference torque, power, wise. on road, you dont need torque un less you are one of those street racers. lol.
peace out and enjoy!

 

Quoted for sig material!

 

since this swap is more for the wife and not myself, it's an automatic. so a little loss of power but it could be gained back with cam and throttle body swap. her tranny went out, 800 bucks for a new tranny. i figured spend 400 more and get her an entire motor/tranny setup and get away from the tainted f23a1 tranny that has so many documented probs. no matter what i would have made the same decision to go with the f20b since it's not something that is overdone and not to mention its a direct fit. i already lined a guy up(who's done it before) to wire this bad boy up so it runs properly. it's a slow process because this is my first actual swap so i'm taking my time and the fact is i'm working solo as of right now.

 

lulz