Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 7, 2009 | 07:05 PM
  #1  
alex37211's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Default Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

I'm in need of a wastegate. I'm going to use a 14b (TD05H) on a D16z6 and shoot for 200whp. Maybe 8 psi or so? I need an external wastegate. I read this:

Wastegate sizing-
One of the more popular misconceptions about wastegate sizing is; the more powerful the engine, the bigger the wastegate is needed. This guide indicates the right size of wastegate:

big turbo/low boost = bigger wastegate
big turbo/high boost = smaller wastegate
small turbo/high boost = smaller wastegate
small turbo/low boost = bigger wastegate

How much of this is true? My friend said a small WG would be ideal for me. He said a 38mm should be good. What do you guys say?
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2009 | 07:07 PM
  #2  
Urban_Indian's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: prince george, bc, canada
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

where did you find this info?
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2009 | 07:59 PM
  #3  
TheShodan's Avatar
Moderator
20 Year Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 241
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

That is correct information. WHich is rare these days. TiAL can testify to this information.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2009 | 08:15 PM
  #4  
turbo97coupe's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: in the sticks, U S of A
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

learned somthing new , howcome people who have creep issues with 44's upgrade to dual 44's then ? dont take that wrong haha i like learning new things
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 05:22 AM
  #5  
m R g S r's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,555
Likes: 0
From: NYC bitchessss
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Because of poor manifold design. Well kinda. The manifold is flowing too much of the exhaust gas to the turbo and not enough flow to the wastegate to regulate boost.
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 05:40 AM
  #6  
Schister66's Avatar
Man U FTW
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,973
Likes: 2
From: Phoenix, AZ
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Hmm...someone that did research and has a clue. That's rare these days. The Tial 38mm should work just fine for your setup
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 09:49 AM
  #7  
ScorpionT's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

I tried explaining that idea on the Subaru forum and they would have none of it! Glad other people understand how it works.
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 09:52 AM
  #8  
TiAL's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: MI
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

my work here is almost complete!

yes, an MV-S gate would be perfect for your car
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 10:18 AM
  #9  
4drEF's Avatar
Keyboard Humorist
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,814
Likes: 11
From: Granada Hills, Ca, USA
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Good info - I found this interesting (running internal gate currently so it doesn't have any effect on my setup) and searched a bit only to find the same info on other sites.

I was under the misconception that a larger gate would expell more exhaust so you would want a larger gate at high boost. My thoughts are obviously backwards to how it should be done.

Can anyone shed some detail for how this works?
What goes wrong with a large gate at high boost?
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 10:28 AM
  #10  
kyden's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,883
Likes: 4
From: CT
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

you want less gas to go into the wastegate at higher boost. using a bigger gate would require more cycling of the wastegate to keep constant pressure.
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 10:34 AM
  #11  
sleepercivic88's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

The position of the wg is more important than size im my opinon.... you can have a huge waste gate stight off cyl 1 but it will not work as well as a small one on the collector of the manifold. I have a tial 38 on a lower 8 psi setup and it never creeps. the goal is to keep even pressure across all cylinders. I think it is actually dangerous to run a wg off one single cylinder before the collector because that cylinder will go lean in comparison to the other ones.
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 10:59 AM
  #12  
alex37211's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Originally Posted by Urban_Indian
where did you find this info?
wikipedia
Reply
Old Apr 8, 2009 | 03:50 PM
  #13  
sleepercivic88's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Default Re: Larger wastegate for small turbo!?

Basic principles of manifold design. That is why a ram horn is better than a log manifold. Each cylinder approximately has a similar distance to the collector thus they are more efficient. Its also a good idea to have your manifolds wraped becasue you want to keep the exhaust gas as hot as possible until it hits the turbine. It should help with your spool time and also under hood temps.

Work=(Enthalpy inlet)-(enthalpy exhaust) and that is aproximatly
1.004(Temp inlet- temp exhaust) of the turbine 1.004 is the cp of air but is not a good approx at this temp because air is essential diatomic and translational energy becomes a factor.

assuming that the turbine is adiabatic for air and I was neglecting changes in kenetic energy also.

wow that was a tangent. sorry
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
16vt
Forced Induction
2
May 29, 2005 10:55 AM
green91
Forced Induction
1
Jul 16, 2004 06:00 PM
PolySquared
Forced Induction
1
May 12, 2002 09:57 PM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:05 AM.