Car: EK Civic 3door.
Engine: JDM 1995 B18c1(OBD1); Standard P72 ECU; Custom Intake(simple stainless steel pipe with K&N Filter). Spoon backbox. (engine is not adjusted in any way for emissions etc as I'm in Ireland so JDM cars/engines are road legal)
I was told the engine had ~45k miles on it when I bought it(i've done less than 2k miles since).

Not throwing any codes in normal use. Will throw one for the ELD if you jump the pins but does not show this unless you do as the ELD is not critical (simply adjusts the alternator a little when you use more electrics, but there was none in the original fusebox(d14a4 engine - 1.4L), nor the UKDM DC2 ITR one that I used to wire it. This was an OBD2 loom which I personally spliced into the original 1.4 underdash loom and added the necessary wires for the OBD1 B18c1 engine loom.

The engine pulls very smoothly right through the revs and idles smoothly(if a little high sometimes - ~1000rpm tho usually the correct 900rpm).

I put the engine in summer 07, and it then saw minimal use over the following 8months, at which point I moved to France for 6months & it sat up. I've driven it occasionally since returning home at Christmas. Its covered less than 2000miles since the engine went in(&therefore has not been serviced since then).

On a local rolling road yesterday it only put out 151bhp and 133lbs of Torque - with a very obvious sudden drop off in torque at 6000rpm - see dyno charts below.

The guy who owns the tuning center advised the timing is a little advanced, but that it would need to be a cog out by a tooth to cause such a power loss. Though, surely if it were out by a cog it would run like a dog? His next suggestion was to check fueling after I check the timing. I'm running a Walbro 255L/hr pump - that I got off Ebay though so I guess that could be an issue?

So, my plan at the moment is to check:
-Timing
-Change oil, oil filter, (& plugs?)
-Tappets are a little noisy - can someone tell me if these are hydraulic or adjusted by shims or whatever?
-Check Compression? Though surely if this was it it would not run/pull so smoothly?

Dyno Charts may offer some insight.

 

Right, just checked the cams, and I think they are right? Marks seem lined up but cam "up" points are not both exactly "up"??
Photos below:

Pulley at TDC:


Cams:


Cams up close with marks visible


What do you think??

 

those numbers look normal for a stock gsr motor to me

 

Nope, all JDM B18c1's make 180ps stock. All others I know of, that are running right, make about 175bhp on Irish normal 95 Octane petrol. A decent intake normally puts that at 180+. I'm only making 151bhp and power doesnt kick up like it should after 6000rpm as you can see in the graph

 

the cam gears look off... are they the right gears? Because the one on the left looks straight up .. but the one on the right is cocked to the left bout a tooth... even tho they are meeting in the middle lines the up arrows are not symmetrical to each other

 

Power output looks normal to me also.

 

Please read my post. This is a JDM B18c1. Standard output of 180ps(~178bhp).
The power on the graph is flywheel power, not at the wheels. Almost all good condition B18c1's over here (Ireland) put out about 175bhp standard.

 

Still normal to me, I don't care if it's cdm, jdm, or whatever you fan bois wanna call them.

If you think it's low on power do a compression test or fawk w/timing to squeeze some more power out of it.

 

The bhp ratings you are refering to are at the flywheel. Those are the readings you would get on an engine dyno. Anytime you use a chassis dyno you are going to see a parasitic power loss due to the drag from the drivetrain in the car. 150@ the wheels for a stock b18c is not bad. I wouldn't say its great but its definitely not anything I would be worried about.

 

I will say this again, please READ the posts and look at the diagrams!

Its 151bhp AT THE FLYWHEEL!!

123bhp at the wheels!

Now, do you agree it's down on power??

 

 

Sure your engine is SIR-G manual?
SIR-G automatic engine are down in power bc of différent camshafts.
Any restrictions on the exhaust or fuel filter?

 

Yes, manual. It's from a JDM 1995 Integra Si-Vtec (the name changed from "Si-Vtec" to "SiR" in Sept 1995).

Exhaust may possibly be somewhat restrictive - Its an OEM Integra SiR manifold&CAT, but the middle section is either JDM EK4 or EK9 - I got it off an EK4 that came in from Japan heavily modified. I'm waiting to find a vernier calipers to check if its 2.25" bore like the Integra SiR. Spoon street backbox.

Intake, no, its a custom stainless steel 3" piping from throttle body to just behind light - so same length as OEM, with a large K&N cone filter, and a large cold air feed from the bumper to under the filter.

However, I can't see intake/exhaust robbing me of 30bhp unless they are VERY restrictive.

 

Leakdown and Compression Test...then report back with numbers.

You either have a HUGE restriction in your exhaust or you have possible bent valves to have torque fall off that hard up top.

 

Is it me, or does the intake cam look pretty retarded? Like its off a tooth?

 

yeah thats what i thought

 

1. Make sure your intake air butterfly system is opening
2. Make sure your air fuel ratios (lamda) is not too rich due to the higher fuel pressure the walbro 255 lph fuel pump is providing.

 

Too bad no O2 log to verify your not dropping fuel pressure for some reason. Pics of the timing do look off. The TDC mark seems to be at about 2 degrees BTDC, while the right cam gear does appear "strange". You do show the marks on the gears though, and they appear correct. Tough call via those pics is my verdict.

Like stated though, ensure IAB's are working. Aside from that I'd do typical diagnostics via leakdown and compression to track the issue.

 

Right, I'm an idiot. For the photos I posted before I did not have the engine at TDC on Cylinder 1! I set it using the dizzy yesterday and the intake cam was definitely out by a tooth(photos to come).

So, following a friend's advice, I removed the cam covers & retainers, and tilted the intake cam just enough so that the belt was on the edge of the cam gear and I could turn it one tooth - without having to releast tension on the belt or remove the pulley etc etc.

I then set the dizzy at center of the top mounting point (which is apparently roughly right for most B18?) and took it for a drive.

I'm pretty certain I could feel more pull up top - to the point that I let it bounce the limiter by accident - which I think tells me I'm not used to it revving that fast high in the revs?

It does feel less responsive lower down though. However, as the dizzy timing is not done yet I don't want to judge it.

The Dizzy Rotor arm looks a bit worn, I think- though I'll post a photo as I'm not sure. I replaced the Dizzy cap when the engine went in as the original was broken but I don't think I replaced the arm. If I replace the arm, should I also replace the cap? Its pretty fresh as its only seen like 2000miles.

With engine at TDC Cylinder 1:



After I changed it:



Dizzy Arm:

 

Oh, and this is the exhaust, looks 2" or 2.25" to me but I don't have a Vernier Calipers to be sure. Its either EK4 or EK9. I'm thinking EK4 as it looks more like 2".
Clearly not a difference that would loose big power but be nice to know:

 

damn bro, thats a big drop in power
only way to check is do a leakdown and comp test like stated so we can get an idea
if thats isnt the problem, then its timing or feul

its def not the exhaust unless something is clogged(cat)

check feul pressure and see if you get good fuel pressure, spark should be fine.

 

is it just me or is this thread in the wrong section

 

Read the posts man - I found the timing was out by a tooth, just like the Rolling Road / Tuner guy suggested.

I'm going to set the dizzy timing with a light, do an oil/filter change and have it re-tested.

Oh, and I'm probably picking up an EK9 center section this weekend (either 2.25" or 2.5" depending who you listen to, will measure when I see it). Hopefully this will allow me to replace the cat and use the JDM DC2 ITR Cat I have - it's flanges were too big to use it before - though I may also need to change the manifold before I can use it.

As for wrong section - where should it go then?
I don't see an "Engine Problems" or "General Technical Problems" section??

 

did you re test it yet?

 

I'm just back from getting it re-tested.

177.1bhp @7331rpm (Was 151.4@6931)
148.5bhp at the wheels
140.3lbs @5984rpm (Was 133.9@2575) (so according to Honda's figures she's up 15lbs??...)
And both curves are significantly up right across the revs (bar a tiny drop in torque from 2200-3000rpm).

Very happy with that. Especially given its an EK4 (1.6) exhaust center section(2"),&a pretty fcuked cat. & standard otherwise bar the custom intake. Thats also on normal ~95-98RON fuel with no additives.(JDM being 100RON)

I picked up an OEM 96spec JDM DC2 ITR 4-2-1 manifold a short while ago - for free as it has a small crack in one of the pipes but I doesnt look to go right through.

So tomorrow I'll be putting that on with the JDM DC2 ITR Cat and EK9 center section. Based on the above numbers I'm guess I should see 5-7bhp from that? Especially if the cat is blocked up. She will probably peak a little higher with those I'd say too - she's already peaking nearly 300rpm below factory spec - 7600rpm.


The tuner guy said that she is running perfectly, just a little restricted in the exhaust.

I'm off to change the oil&filter!

Thanks for the help!