94 H22A and im lost maybe someone can help who knows this.

my dads an old school muscle car guy, he noticed that when i time my H22A, the closer it gets to the timing marks being correct the worse the car runs, he told me that cams would cause that. everything is TDS, ive checked countless times. I didn't do my swap, and i dont know what/if any internals have been changed on that motor. I have my car timed right now simply by the feel of the motor and the sound of it... which i know isnt the healthiest for the car, but i know that its in a moderatly safe place right now, i can make it run leaner than what its set at now.

well, i also have a throttle responce issue at idle, if i stomp on the throttle it will bog/backfire and even cause the engine to run backwards sometimes, i know its not an electrical issue, or a timing issue, fuel/air etc, theyre all ruled out.

my question is are there any h22 cams out there that change the low cam profile to the point that you have to run the car with the idle above the recommended 750 800 range? if i put the rpms too about 1000/1200 i have very nice crisp throttle responce.

 

firstly, hitting the gas at idle is never going to cause your engine to run backwards. use your brain.

aside from being an ***, you're most likely just doing something wrong with setting the timing. make sure firstly that you're using the correct mark (is the flywheel stock?) and also make sure that you've jumped the 2pin connector behind the radio (the same jumper you use to check CEL codes). jumping that connector will kill the electronic advance. also, the car has to be fully warm when doing it so that you can keep a steady idle, and make sure that said idle is set correctly at 750rpm +/- 50. also be very sure that you're taking spark from the correct plug wire (#1 is closest to the timing belt).

I believe that if you get your timing set correctly, your throttle response problems will be resolved.

 

damn...i wish i knew reverse rotation was that easy

are you consulting a manual? or just winging it with old school standards?

 

LOL run backwards? heheheh jesus

Id fix whats wrong before you go throwing more parts at it like cams.

Unless your cam timing is off. I'd check that too maybe if the ignition timing is found to be fine.

 

mgags7... im an ***? because ive seen my belts, my pumps and my alternator litteraly rotate in the opposite direction then die when i step on the gas hard at idle? yeah that makes me an ***? when i first got the car the clutch was fried... i put in a stage 2 clutch and a light weight flywheel, the marks on the flywheel match the stock marks. I'm not a moron when it comes to this car i know how to adjust ignition timing. ive seen many cars with performance cams that causes the flywheel to no longer line up at the suggested stock RPM. by no means am i throwing what you say out the window... but im doing the timing right, it wont go there... my idle is set at 775 780, it just stays right there... if i put my timing light on plug 1 at operating temp, while the the service connector is jumped the car will litteraly bog down and die when the timing mark gets to the timing sight.

mattsnooz... I have no intentions of putting cams or any aftermarket part in this motor while its not running properly, hence why i made this post. problem is for all i know it has cams in it, ive pulled the valve cover more than once to see if i can find a mark or some label on the cams so i can tell if theyre stock or not, each time ive pulled it ive put cylinder 1 to TDS, cam gears, flywheel etc lines up.


jlude90... i have a Accord/Prelude 1984-1995 Repair manual and a shop manual for both a 94 to 97 accord and a 92 to 96 prelude, i follow the book and i follow it well.

 

bump

 

I don't think its possible for your motor to be turning back wards. Its an optical illusion I would think. Use a wheel on a shaft. Carefully let the wheel hit the belt on the powersteering pulley and watch the wheel spin. This will indicate the direction the motor is really going.

 

I suppose the wording may have been confusing, I meant I was being an ***. It's an age-old habit of mine, so get used to it.

Now, your eyes are playing tricks on you. That is all there is to it, I won't argue about an engine suddenly deciding to rotate in the wrong direction. It is silliness.

On to the timing issue, I'm going to go with a 95-97% assurance that you're doing something wrong here or have hooked something up incorrectly doing the swap. I've timed h22s with lumpy cams many times, and even with something like a crower stage 3, idling at 750rpm is not a problem. Based on that, I'm thinking you need to re-check your timing marks.

Other than that, it's possible that you've screwed something up concerning the MAP or TPS or something along those lines. What method have you used to "rule those out"?

If the car won't idle at 750, you simply have one or both of two problems. P1 would be something physically out of time, and P2 would be the ecu not getting the correct data in order to run the engine correctly.

What injectors are you using? What ecu? What car?

 

LOL, thats halarious

Yeah its not an electric motor where you might be able to reverse your battery to change its rotation....wait you didn't hook your battery up backwards did you??? lol jk hey...if your starter rotated reversed biased than it could start your car going the wrong way heheheh

 

its not like i can throw it in reverse and go forward... youre thinking way too much into it. it jets maybe a full rotation out of the crank when it does it... it wont run backward, but believe me the cams, crank, alternator, power steering pump, ac compressor... it all rolls backwards.

 

thats almost funny...

94 accord JDM p13 with an H22A

but i am gonna go run the timing light over it before it gets too bright outside...


am i really going to have to pull out my camera and make it roll backwards just to shut you guys up? im pretty sure its not good for the motor, it doesnt make a good sound when it does it... and just so you know a lot of motors do it... ever been around an old truck or a tractor and when they shut it off the timing is so far off it chuggs and couple times and lets out a tshhhhhh, thats the motor rolling backwards buddy.

either way, i'm very meticulus, i take pictures... i write things down... i have a very good memory but not to mention another 94 accord sitting right next to it. and the car runs quite well other than those 200rpms that bogs it down. i can go jump in it right now and smash down my road if i want to... probably be a horrible idea since the last time i slept was for 5 hours on sunday..

 

oh... and while fighting the H22A im also dealing with my stock accord hitting a 4000rpm revlimiter... having a blast trying to figure that one out.

 

Couple of questions I have for you Peeonu25:

1. Have you checked that all the timing marks are aligned - Cams, Crank, etc as it sounds strangely like a Cam timing issue your car is having.
2. Have you checked the CEL code your other vehicle may be throwing??

 

It's an optical illusion. Period.

Ever watch the wheels of a car while accelerating? It looks like they're turning backwards because your brain can only process images so fast.

Either way, I'll try and check in on this thread to help you out with the problem. We should try and stop bickering and start figuring this out. Go check up on the stuff we suggested and get back with us.

 

two things i can think of to check just for giggles: valve lash & cam timing. do you have adjustable cam gears? is it possible the previous owner installed a thicker or thinner head gasket and/or milled the head and threw off the cam timing which in turn is causing ignition timing? sorry, i'm obd2, so i don't have much experience with ign timing, but just a couple thoughts.

 

good point

 

A car came into our shop doing the same thing, ran like crap and when shutting down the engine, the pulleys would "pop" back in the opposite direction right before it stalled. (like a mini backfire) The customer had the cams off mark and had the dist timing cranked all the way retarded to keep it running. So a its a good bet your timing, either cams or ignition or the firing order could be off. Hope I was able to help.

 

speed sensor maybe???

 

depends on if its stock ECU or not

 

speedo works fine... no CEL's... when an auto is in P or N it wont rev to its normal rev limiter... a dump truck pulled outinfront of me 2 weeks after i got the car, i fixed it and for awhile it was blowing the back up light fuse and i couldnt figure out why, so i popped in a 30amper problem solved... maybe the sensor in the automatic shifter took a crap in the accident and it thinks its always in park or neutral?

 

mines doing the opposite, with the dizzy as retarded as possible i wouldnt even beable to pull the car out of the drive way... if i was to advance it all the way it keeps running better and better, eventually i get to the end of the adjustment.... but never have i actually gotten the white mark on the flywheel to the timing sight.... its always before TDS

 

So have you checked all the timing marks are aligned??
One tooth can make all the difference.

 

tomorrow im gonna go over everything

pull the valve cover and the plugs so i can roll it easy... im gonna look around for a coil wire and a new dizzy... i was looking at the car today (i was always told the h22a was from a 96 lude... noticed the 97 stamped on the clocks, so its actually an obd2 motor and im now 95% sure they used the accord harness and converted it.

never again will i buy someone elses modifyied car

when i first got the car i was throwing 3 different cels from my dizzy, bought a dizzy from a friend that was on his h23 that he wrecked, the harness wasnt the same, confused me at the time...so i made a conversion for the plugs... and until today... i was looking for a spot to run an amp wire through the firewall and saw a bunch of tape around the harness, i guess they converted the obd2 dizzy that was on the car to the obd1 harness and i never noticed it all tucked down there until today. to its got a p13 ecu... obd1 obviously... with an obd1 harness... that got converted to obd2 for the dizzy... then reconverted to obd1 for the dizzy i bought... that cant be too good for the electrical system of the car... that and my coil wire is dead... or my MSN igniter one of the 2

 

So what I'm gathering is you have an h22a, which is JDM and is obd1 (if it were a 97 and USDM it would be an h22a4). The previous owner for some reason decided to run an obd2 dizzy and had to convert it to work with the obd1 ecu (and obviously did it wrong). You bought an obd1 dizzy and re-converted it to work with the ecu and harness. Are you still throwing any CEL?

 

CEL free.

could a bad coil wire or a bad connection to the dizzy be causing this? does that happen without throwing a CEL?

i have teh valve cover off right now so i can see the cam gears...

theyre both lined up, i cant seem to find the mark on the flywheel, but the piston is at the top of its stroke

are there any marks on the crank pully that i can see without having my timing belt cover off?

ok well... my piston is TDC... cams are TDC... i cant find the white mark on my flywheel for TDC... definitly why i hate having a light weight flywheel... they sit like an inch off from a stock one so their hard to see.

are there marks on the cams that happen to line up with the arrows on the gears?