ok, so this has been covered loads of times, and in the few days I've been researching, I still cant get an answer, or get it fixed. I have no way to get to work at the moment, i REALLY need to get this figured out.

BACKGROUND INFO
- 1991 Civic Sedan, DX
- MPFI swap
- The car sat for ~2 years undriven, but was occassionally started and ran
- brand new 0 gauge grounds from battery
- canada made car, no ELD
- no unplugged/corroded/dirty sensors/wires
- all applicable fuses are fine

NOW. When I put it back on the road a few weeks ago all was well for a day or two. However over a few days of driving to work and back it started to die at stop signs/lights, and the idle was choppy. Also, the battery doesnt seem to hold a charge. (Not the battery, so its obviously bad alternator, or something is draining the battery. It's got NOTHING in it right now, except a clock and a tiny 12v LED that blinks when the doors are locked. Nothing major. I'm thinking its not the alternator, because i can leave it for 8 hours while I'm at work, and come back out and it would start. Only died over night. Northwestern Ontario (Canada), could just be the cold [no block heater])

After I last drove it to work (~1 week ago) it died when I got home, and it didnt start the next morning. Will turn over, but doesnt ever start. ECU is throwing code 20, which is the ELD. The car was made in Canada, and therefore doesnt have an ELD, but the ECU was swapped out when I did the MPFI, obviously, so i'm thinking it always did throw that code.

Now, there arent any unplugged/corroded/damaged wires, I've checked them all 3-4 times each. ECU isnt dead because it gives me the green blinky, for one, and two its throwing codes. Distributer was replaced when the MPFI swap was done, and it really doesnt have many miles on it (MAYBE 25,000KM).



I know this has been asked a hundred times, and i honestly sound like a broken record with this question, but i'm so confused with what to do next. I don't want to throw money at it replacing ALL the sensors when it might not be the problem, especially because i'm barely staying afloat as it is. i havent got a multimeter, even if i knew how to read one. does anyone have ANY ideas for me?


SUM IT UP
- got spark
- gets fuel (primes and everything, good to go)
- was fine, died slowly over about 4 days
- no wire corrosion/disconnection/dirt




Anyone??

 

Have you tried another battery?
Also to check for a drain unhook one side of the battery and put the test light in it and see if it lights up. IE: (+ post) -test light - (+ cable).

 

looking for another battery as we speak. will that cause it to turn over but not start, though?

will try the drain test tomorrow. thanks for the idea.



i should clarify that i use a battery booster when starting it, so its got plenty of power at that point.

 

Not usually but you may have more than one problem, you can get a new one or barrow one that you know is good from someone just to test with.

Need to read more about the ELD, I can't remember off the top of my head exactly how that system works. You may need to get the correct ecu if it has to do with telling the alt to charge properly. If you get another battery and it lasts for a few days before it starts flipping out then I would look into the ELD issue.

 

i was thinking maybe ECU, but then i realized no. its not the ECU, i know that because it ran just fine for a good 2 years after the MPFI swap, no issues.

 

Well that should rule that out then, try the battery and see how much drain you have (you always have a little like clock stereo but the light should be real dim, turn your headlights on or open a door and you can verify how much drain you are seeing). If your using the booster to start it then it really sounds like a dead battery to me.

 

but the booster is only needed after its been sitting in the Northwestern Ontario cold over night. 8 hours in an outdoor parking lot while i'm at work (for example) did nothing to it.

i'll give it a shot, see what i can come up with. thanks!


any other ideas?

 

if you do get it started an easy way to check if the alternator is bad, is start the car let it idel then pull the + off the batt if the car stays on the alternator is good

 

^ that's a usual trick a lot of people do. another thing you can do is taking your parts to an automotive place to get it tested. Not sure if you have any autozones or kragen/shucks/o'reily's over there in canada, but they can test your alternator and battery usually for free.

 

there are places that i'm sure will (Napa, PartSource, etc) but i'm a ways from any of them, for one, and its far too cold to take them off in my driveway.

i'll try that alternator thing. I just got the battery when i put it on the road from my buddy at a junk yard. He says it was tested and it passed, so i'm thinking it might just be alternator.

The problem is that i cant get it to start. It just turns over, never starts. Thats the entire root of the problem, the one i'm trying to solve...

 

i vote on the alt. about 2 months ago mine would hold a charge for about 8-12 hours but if it was any longer than that it would not start. got a new alt. and it worked like a champ. also mine was sitting for about a year and it killed the batt so maybe both are your problem? GL

 

I have this exact same problem witht the same time ranges and everything.. Mine only sat for 8 months.. I can leave it at work will start up fine.. But in the morning after an 8 hour sit.. It will crank but not always start.. I am interested to see your resolution!

 

I would not pull the battery terminal off while it is running. It's not common, but you could get a voltage spike high enough to damage things. Instead check your voltage.

To check parasitic loss the test light is a good, old, proven trick, but there are better options available (inductive ammeter, sears $50). Of course more amps is more drain, more light is more drain. So hook it up and then start pulling fuses one by one till the drain is gone. If you pull them all and it is still draining, pull the alternator fuse (under hood) or disconnect the wire from the alt.

As for not starting, the basics are good. Grab a fuel pressure tester and an ignition tester. Do the ignition test first, and make sure you have a good strong spark. Then check your ignition timing. If it is way off, check your compression. Finally check your fuel pressure, and your injector signal with a noid.

 

I'm going to see about getting a cheap alternator replacement for it and try that. I don't have any money to be throwing at it right now, mainly why I've been researching instead of just... doing.

Spark and fuel are fine. Compression is bad, but it has been for some time, and the car still starts and runs (at least, it did until this problem arised)

Thanks for the info. I'll get back to you all when I replace the alternator with the results. THANKS a TONNE!

 

Did you make any head-way on the problem? I am still very interested to see what you find helps (as I have the same problem)!

good luck

-Chris

 

This is also a very good way to fry the alternator. Sure many people do it and get away with it, but it happens more than people think. This was a trick to do back in the generator days. Cars have alternators now; it is a different world than it was back then. Also, getting away from Honda's a touch, typically if your alternator has a computer chip in it which really didn't start until the late 90's, then it will fry almost every time.

 

op- any progress? still interested.

thanks,

-Chris