HONDA CIVIC SI 2002 COUPE

Ok, before I am directed to replace rotors etc, let me explain what I have done: turned both rotors in 2008 and although symptoms went away they returned after 3-4 months of driving. In Sep 2008 I put on a new (rebuilt) caliper on the left side and brand new rotors, slotted and all, from a highly reputable place in Houston.

Worked fine for a few months and then during the holidays I noticed the symptoms started to return- that when braking above 45-50, I got a pretty violent shake in the steering wheel and it gets worse the more I drive the car, so now I am back to downshifting to to slow me down.

Additional problems that I have noticed from the first time I had to turn the rotors: the car has always had a weird noise coming from the left side when I go over a bump (like a speed bump) or hit a hole. The left side makes like a thump or thud and sometimes like a pop sound mixed in with the thud. I only hear this on the left side, that is why I only replaced the left caliper as someone recommended it saying that perhaps that caliper was not releasing or something like that and therefore I needed to replace it. That was done like I said in Sep 2008 but the problem of the shaking is coming back. The noise made on the left side when going over a bump on in a hole has always been there, but it is only heard if you hit the bump or hole a certain way.

I also lifted the front wheel off the ground today and had someone accelerate it to 55-60 mph and you could hear some noise coming from the left side, but could not pinpoint exactly where. My uncle is thinking it might be an inner CV joint (no noise by the way when turning and going in a circle). Could it be the left strut also. Neither strut appears loose however and although the front end was shaing somewhat when the front wheels were off the ground, it was hard to tell which side it came from, although the left side appeared to be worse.

The parts guy at the parts house is going to give me another caliper for free b/c of the warranty, but what is the chance of getting a bad rebuilt caliper. I will probably put the new caliper back on this week and turn the new rotors, but it will just progress back to this point. Dont know what to do. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give all details as to what has been done. Thanks for any help you could give.

b in H-town...

 

A lot of parts can produce a clunking noise, usually you'll get a shimmy in the wheel/shaking from your control arm or tie rod. Check the bushings on each and make sure there's no play in them. Not sure about our Civics but most cars can replace only the bushings on the control arm. Tie rods usually need the entire rod replaced

Just another thing to check while you're down there.

 

Well, turning rotors often is not a long-term solution. It is unfortunately not uncommon to have warping return afterwards. You may want to replace with OEM pads/ rotors. Or at least OEM pads. I've heard that pads should be replaced when you are replacing rotors that are warped. I've also had good luck with Brembo Blanks for the rotors...they're much cheaper than OEM.

For the clunking...yes it could be a lot of things. My guess is that it's not related to your brake issues though. CV joints, bushings, Ball Joints...they're all worth looking at. If you're not sure how to, doing a search will help!

 

I replaced the pads the 2nd time i turned the old rotors. i bought new pads to put on when i bought the new rotors, but they would not fit so i went back with the old pads, which were only about 4-5 months old. i did not think the pads would matter, and either way, the problem was solved (temporarily) when i replaced the rotors and left caliper.

the problem that i am trying to focus on is this: what is causing the rotor (mainly left side at this time as far as I can tell) to slowly warp during about a 3 month time frame? and, is it related to any loose part you guys mentioned? can a loose bushing or any other related suspension part cause the pads/rotors to warp? i believe that what happens is when i replace the pads and/rotors it is ok; then as i start using the brakes, perhaps this loose part is causing such tremendous vibration that as i broke, the rotors progressively are warped. does this sound like a good theory?

question is what would a mechanic do? start replacing items as well until problem solved?

ok, will look at the items you guys have already told me about and reply when i figure something out.

 

Suspension issues are very unlikely, if not impossible to cause the rotor to warp. The rotor is sandwiched between the hub and the wheel, so one of the most likely causes is the wheel lugs being over torqued, or unevenly torqued. If you're doing the work yourself, make sure use a torque wrench to eliminate chance of that being the problem. If a shop is doing the work, you can bet they're using an impact wrench and over-torquing them. Excessive braking can also cause warping, so try to brake early and in advance. As long as you don't stomp on the brakes at the last second all the time, you're probably fine.

 

Sound like you have 2 problems but a couple things first.....there is no such thing as a 2002 si coupe, its a hatch....
You are not warping rotors, you are just cooking the pads and the glue is comming off onto the rotors. This glue is not being spread smooth, there are clumps and that is why you think you have a warped rotor. I have done several track days with my stock ep3 rotors and have been able to read a news paper by the glow of my front rotors after a 20 minute sesion with cobalt pads and never warped a rotor. You need to pull your front splash shields to allow air to the inside side of the rotors. On the ep3, honda has the splash shields 1/8th of a inch away from the rotors. This makes air cooling just about impossible for your air cooled brakes. All it takes is pulling the rotors, pulling 4 6mm bolts and 2 snips with a pair of tinsnips.

You also might want to pick a new set of pads....cheap pads suck.

As for all the clunking....cv jonts make a clunking noise when going around turns, it could also be a lower ball joint, tie rod end or you could have a fuct up strut.

 

Yea, i did some online searches last night and i found a lot of info regarding ball joints and how they can make the clunking noise I am referring to. I will definitely invest in some new and better pads and will remove the splash shields. Im gonna do some testing today for ball joints too.

thanks for the heads-up on the coupe hatchback thing--- i have only owned hatchbacks, nothing else, but somewhere, when i was doing an insurance quote of buying something for my honda, there was no 'hatchback' choice so the person said 'oh, u mean coupe' and so it stuck.... but i will delete that from my vocab....

thanks, will take everyones advice and see what i come up with!!!!

 

To find the clunk, get the front of the car up in the air on jack stands. The grab a wheel and give it a shack....front to back and up and down.....if there is movement, look for what is moving.

 

regarding the glue on the rotors, are you saying that it is a gradual buildup that is why it takes 2-3 months to happen? is it just a thin film or what? so no need to turn rotors, just clean them well and put on new pads (any particular brand) right????

i will try putting car on jacks today.. thanx

 

Buy good pads. Buy good rotors. Don't ride your brakes. Turning rotors is lame. Reusing brake pads is lame.

It's amazing how many people come into my work (NAPA) and buy $200 worth of rotors and reuse their old pads. Or buy 70 dollar brake pads and don't bother turning or replacing rotors. My answer to them... See you in a couple of months!

 

It only takes one session that will get the brakes hot enough so the glue that holds pad material togather to come out and sticks its self to the rotor......Many times you can get this "goop" off with some "brake parts cleaner".....Its ok to use on your rotors.....do not use carb cleaner, it will eat you brake pads and leave a slik film on the brakes.....don't ask me how I know this.

 

ok, so it takes only one time or session but every time it has happened to me, it has been over a period of time, like several months and it progresses... maybe the glue starts coming off in small quantities and then it just builds up over time on the rotors...

i dont know if i said, but it also depends of course on how hard i apply the brakes, obviously the harder i apply them the more vibration it has.... and there is a definite knocking in the wheel area that vibrates all the way up to the wheel... this knocking in the wheel area would not be the rotors, but probably something else i assume...

thanks again

 

that is very important. make sure your calipers are fully working as well (as in not sticking).

 

well, i took me until December 2009 to finally get the car fixed. i continued to change out parts in the left side suspension, even went to a reputable foreign car mechanic i have known for years. he diagnosed as steering problem and also perhaps a bad cv axle. he said he fixed the steering problem (which he didnt) and i changed the cv axle- no luck, so i went to the honda dealership and a bad *** mech checked it out. know what it was all this time??? a bent hub, where my tire bolts on. so he turned the rotors WHILE ON THE CAR (this is much better) and now it breaks fine. if and when it gets bad down the road, i will just change the hub out and maybe have to buy new rotors. but until then, im happy. BUT the steering is still a problem. the Honda mech told me that my steering is very hard and it is possible in the electric motor or the steeting knuckle. he said he can fix it, but of course it could get quite expensive. he says that the electronic power steering (eps) has some issues early on, that the steering has trouble finding center and that when u correct the steering by steering in one way or another, it does not stop at center but follows thru, so then u have to re correct it. this is what i described and he was aware of it. hope you guys get some good out of this and could understand what i have described.

LESSON LEARNED: WHEN I DOUBT, IT MIGHT BE WORTH IT TO PAY THE 1 HR TO HAVE THE HONDA MECHANIC DIAGNOSE AND GIVE YOU UR OPTIONS AND THEN DECIDE IF YOU WILL REPAIR IT YOURSELF, ETC. AT LEAST I HAVE THAT PIECE OF MIND NOW, THIS LOCAL MECHANIC WAS AWESOME AND VERY HELPFUL. WHEN THEY CALLED FOR A FOLLOW UP FROM HONDA OF AMERICA, I GAVE THEM 5 STARS--- UNUSUAL BUT GREAT THIS TIME!!

 

Thanks for the follow up