I've searched and didn't come up with much so.....

I'm just doing research about upgrading my suspension from the stock '00 Gsr setup ( aside from my Tokiko Illuminas & eibach pro-sport springs ). My first order of business is to get an ASR subframe brace. Most people say to get neutral handling that you want the ITR rear swaybar (22mm) but I'm also noticing that Wek'sos has a combo with an ASR rear 24mm swaybar. So now I'm thinking about upgrading the fronts a little as well *IF* i do decide to go with the ASR rear bar. My main goal is to have a car that doesn't need to compensate for roll by having a stiffer setting on the Tokikos so I can be a girly man about my ride AND corner like i always want to.

So, has anyone gone bigger than ITR in the rear AND the front? How's the handling and the ride?

*edit* I'm throwing up a little list so those who see this thread don't have to read every single post to get some good info.

Idrivesideways: 19mm rear swaybar. 300f 250r springs. Neutral handling

OmniRage: 22mm front / 22mm rear. Koni/GC 430f 375r. lotsa oversteer.

StokelesS_g2: 22mm Front / 22mm rear. Oversteer.

NBPej1: 25.5mm front / 24mm rear. Tein Basic 450f 340r. Some understeer.( may be induced by the tein's being lowered all the way down )
NBPej1: Stock ej1 front (19mm?) - 24mm rear. Tein Basic 450f 340r. Oversteer.

g3teg97: 22mm front ( i'm assuming ) / 22mm rear. Oversteer



So, after looking that list, it seems that at this point now with my 331f 194rp that I would probably have about neutral handling with a 22mm bar and would start to induce some oversteer with a 24mm bar that would have to be corrected with a 26mm front swaybar.

 

The GSR and ITR have the same front sway bar

 

I know this.

 

Not sure if this will help but it is a nice write up on the ASR Brace and the USDM ITR Sway bar on stock LCA's.

As for the handling. Great, I wish I had this years ago.
Instead of the Front Sway bar you may want to look into chassis bracing improvements.

Short-cut to my ASR project.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2256572

 

Funny enough, yours was one of the threads I looked at for some answers. I don't know if I've made it clear enough on my original post but I *am* looking to do an ASR subframe brace. When reading posts from people like BSQ, I was hearing about how the stock 24mm fronts and the ITR 22mm back produced neutral handling. So if 22mm for the rear produced neutral handling, I'm thinking that the ASR rears @ 24mm might produce a slight bit of understeer. If i go with the 24mm rear, I might be able to go bigger in the front as well and still keep the handling neutral. At least that's my thinking.

I was just curious if anyone had done it and what the handling was like.

I do plan on some frame reinforcement. Namely I would like to get a C-pillar bar that quick-disconnects and a rear tower bar, but I doubt I'll be getting much more than that. Right now I'm in a holding pattern. I just got approved for a home so I won't be spending ANY money this year on my car that I can forsee and I've got a clusterf--k of parts in my garage for my turbo that I can't use until i can afford some injectors and a harness. Again, i don't plan on doing anything for another year at the least, but I just wanted to do my planning now.

 

depends on how you want the car to react. the front bar works for me with a 19mm rear and 300f 250r springs. depending on how far apart your springs are you may need more/less rear bar. if i had something like 300f 200r springs i'm all but positive i would be using a 22-24mm bar.

 

Can't find the spring rates for those springs you have...here's what I can say about my set up;

Koni/GC 430f 375r
Stock 98 LS Front Anti-Roll Bar (22m?)
Progress Rear Anti-Roll Bar 22mm

I can induce oversteer fairly easily by cranking the wheel taking corners head on, but snap oversteer isn't out of the picture either. The rear has broken loose on me out of nowhere about two times so far, luckily I was able to maintain. Body roll is still a "problem" though. I have a 25mm ITR front bar sitting in my garage right now, I'm just waiting on endlinks.

Someone on these forums described a 'neutral' handling fwd car as one that understeers slightly when coming into a corner, and after riding around I tend to agree that the best results (for me and my car) come with a bit of understeer rather than oversteer.

Edit: Gotta be careful with making your suspension too stiff though, or you'll be handling like a micromachine...

 

i think you'll be happier with the 25mm front bar from what you're saying. if it still isn't enough drop the rear to a 19mm or drop the rear spring to 325lb and it should cure the problem.

 

Well, all Eibach says is that their pro-sport line is about 15% stiffer than stock, so i dont know the rates.

I want the car to drive neutral but what I'm asking for is input from people who have upgraded the front and rears beyond ITR specs and how the car drove after that point.

Meaning, would it be worth it to spend the money on front and rear swaybars that are bigger than ITR and does it allow for neutral handling while keeping the body from rolling, or does it mess with some of the handling of the car in a bad way?

 

[QUOTE=omnirage;37056419]The rear has broken loose on me out of nowhere about two times so far, luckily I was able to maintain. QUOTE]

I've had this happen to me also.
So I removed my ITR rear sway bar.

 

[QUOTE=StokelesS_g2;37064656]What are your springrates and what model of integra do you have? I'm willing to bet that having those high springrates and having them that close together for the other guy AND having the 22mm front swaybar is what did it, but I'm curious about your situation as well.

 

I have a 1997 LS 4dr.

I'm not sure on my spring rates, but I have full coilovers w/ dual springs and adj. damping.
Nicely lowered, about 1" gap all around.
Was riding on stock 14" with Yokohama rubber.

Now on 17" rims with better Rubber, I was thinking about putting the ITR sway bar back on.
Also anyone know if the (00-01 LS) GS-R 24mm front sway bar will help out?

I'm just not too fond of drifting FWD cars, especially when you're not trying to do it on purpose. LoL.

 

in theory it could but you get to the point of wanting to up spring rates rather than then bar just if for no other reason it;s easier on the frame.

 

I've got a 1" ST front bar and an ASR 24mm rear bar with brace, and I'm noticing some understeer. Right now, this is with Tein Basics (coils just about all the way down).

 

Hmm. Yeah, just thought i'd ask since people on here seem to be buying an assortment of jungle gym monkey bars for their cars and I don't really need all that.

Well it sounds like for my needs I'll just be going with an ITR rear bar to compliment my ASR subframe brace instead of that ASR one. I think it'll still allow me to drop my tokiko settings a little bit more and still handle.

 

so 25.4mm for your fronts and you're still getting a bit of understeer.

*edit* I had mixed up my understeer/oversteer terminology. So what % do you think the front dominates? 60/40?

 

You are trying to get specific information from non specific data. Know your spring rates, you cant really get specific about tuning until you know them. Also you should know the weight of your car exactly. You could be compairing apples to oranges if you can't get us any info on this.

To answer your question unless you are a full blown track car your front sway bar should be fine, you could probably go with a bigger than ITR sway bar if you have a good set of coilovers. Adding a sway bar to the front is going to make your car that understeers, understeer more

 

Your front bar is fine just upgrade the rear.... huge difference in handling.

I found stock spring rate from t-i - f212 r 117 so your springs are about f243 r134.

 

Soooooo.....because Eibach doesn't publicize their spring rates and because NO ONE has their exact spring rates and I have no desire to take one off and have it measured, i cant ask?

And you obviously did not read my original post. Re-read my post before you talk about understeer.

 

only problem is that Eibach springs are for all integras so I don't know if they're going off the regular Integra rates or off of ITR rates. I coulda sworn these were higher cause I had these on my civic after i had my Tein H-techs and the Eibachs were much stiffer.

 

F331 R194p

 

i would guess you would feel the rear on the htechs since they are real stiff in comparison of even 15% stiffer than itr... were the htechs on the same shock? anyway the htechs are F 296 R 257

 

I'd probably upgrade the rear first, test it out and then determine whether or not to upgrade the front one.

 

Yeah, but thing was that i got the H-techs for the civic, and the prosports are for the integra, but I had both on my civic.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm thinkin since no one seems to have a direct comparison. I never thought my rears were that weak but I guess the 22mm bar will do me good in that situation.