Your basic FNG here; if I should take this over to the more technical forums, just let me know.

My son has a 99 Civic EX, stone stock. He's about to put on new wheels, and wants to start making some mods under the hood.

I'm looking for a 'start with this' list. What gives the most bang for the buck? Start with a new intake (what are potential problems with CAI?) Catback? midpipe? headers? New plug wires?

He's just looking for more zip, I think. He might take it autocrossing, and realizes that he'll just get spanked in non-stock classes, once he starts making mods. That's OK with him; we'll probably pay two fees, and race each other.

Thanks for your opinions, and grateful for any pointers (here, and links to other threads.)

Oh, and is there a FAQ available so I can find out what some of the abbreviations are (what the heck is an EG ) and what the various generations are (I'm guessing that the 99 is a 5th gen?)


Skydaver


[Modified by SkyDaver, 5:45 PM 8/5/2002]

 

99 EX......most people here will say SWAP. Which basically means take an Integra engine and put it into the Civic.

However, CAI, Header (no s only one), and Cat-back exhaut will help a little. (called I/H/E)

The CAI's only draw back is the fact that it is mounted in the wheel well and can if given the oportunity suck up water and cause the engine to go into hydro lock.

The thing that gives the most bang for the buck is simply Nitrous.

Now, IMO the first thing to do is figure out the budget.
Intake 200
Header 300
Exhaut 400
Adds up doesn't it.
Once you get those done. Suspension is a must, Coil-Overs, Strut Bars, and sway bars.
Then follow that with and Integra brake swap. (Rear Disk conversion)
And performance pads.

Now you will have a decent base. ANd then you decide if you want to keep the engine N/A or go with Turbo or Supercharger.

Fun yet?

 

well if your planning on keeping the stock d-series motor, you really are not going to make any huge gains without forced induction. What I am assuming is that you just want to modify the car enough to make it fun to drive. If your looking for more zip, I would suggest the basic CAI, header, cat, and exhaust. After the basic bolt ons, internal engine work is needed to sqeeze out more power.

As far a handling goes, a beefier set of tires, springs/coilovers, and sway bars/strutbars will make the car handle much better.

Overall, one thing to remember is to apporach the engine and suspension as systems. Plan out each part you are planning to purchase and how it is going to fit in that system. If I were to get into specific details it would take me all day so use the search feature.

I have a 99 ex and it is a daily driver 60 mi round trip to work. It has the basic I/H/C/E and the suspension is tweaked a little. My car has more power but nothing to really brag about.

forgot to add that you sound like one cool dad for hooking up your son like that!


[Modified by LANL02, 11:06 AM 8/5/2002]


[Modified by LANL02, 11:06 AM 8/5/2002]

 

Since this is his car, the budget is from his wallet. I don't think he could handle a swap, or forced induction yet.

Also, as a new driver, I would prefer that he not have quite that much power (there's a reason the Integra is more costly to insure than the Civic ) When he wants to drive a rocket, he'll have to plead to drive my '02 Maxima 6spd.

So, it looks like bolt on is the way to go.

If you had to space out the intake, header, cat & exhaust mods (that pesky budget again), what would you do first?

I'm also thinking of recommending that he go for suspension improvements before power improvements. Cornering like a go kart is as much fun as straight line oomph!

He saved up for this car himself, and we matched his earnings. I 'leased' it back from him for almost a year (until he gets to drive by himself) by trading in my old Caravan, and applying that towards the car. We (the 'rents) wanted to make sure he had a safe, reliable car, since he has a 40mile round trip to school.

 

INTAKE First.

They make the most power right away IMO and only sound loud when you really get on it.

Ground Control Coil Overs. (look for spring rates in the 300's)
SI front Sway Bar 26mm (22mm stock)
Type R rear sway bar with Beaks mounting kit. 25mm (none stock)
Apexi World Sport Cat-back......stock looking sounds good but not loud enough to get a ticket.
DC Sports 4-1 Stainless Steel header......performance and good looks.
Ignition is fine until he gets some power adders.

 

I agree Intake and some lowering springs, it'll fun to drive for the time being.

 

OK, I'm off to search for intake recommendations (pros/cons of CAI vs. HAI, if there is such a thing, etc.)

At least I didn't post "What is a cat back?"

 

look some people will tell ya to go suspension...some will say bolt-ons..some will say forced induction(turbo/super)...if he(ur son) wants extra power u gotta key in on 3 main things
1) fuel system-fuel rail/fuel pressure regulator/fuel pump/fuel filter(prefer AEM prodcts)
2) ignition system-spark plug/wires/msd
3) air-short ram/cold air intake/forced induction
these 3 things move ur car...so with these 3 things beefed up...he'll have some fun

 

unless he s planning major mods in the future..stay simple now and perform mods that will compliment future one s..always one to take suspension first and work up plenty of kits out there from seperate spring and strut setups to full coilovers..the purpose of such setups of course is to lower the car for better handling into the turns and higherspeeds..then id move on to exhaust and intake..personally id prefer a custom cat. back sys..using 2 1/4" piping and a 2 piece CAI..just about every major company has them now..during wet weather where it s possible to submerge the filter u can just use the upper portion..personally ive never seen any real advantage in a aftermarket unless ur going to use it for FI...what i did was install a jackson blower on my 98 coupe..with this little toy ull gain a min of 40+ HP..not breathtaking power but itll spank a stock SI...only say this cuz the blower requires minimum upgrades to the motor..at this time an intake is need d for the blower..clutch upgrade as well as brakes...notice no upgrades were made to the motor its self..of course with this much money u could afford a swap..but id much prefer getting all i can out of the stock motor..just about everyone will say *swap * is the way to go..i guess im one of a very few that feels otherwise

 

hey dave, befor i let u go..get ur son on the board too..we re not a bunch of street racers and maniacs the cops would have u beleive..as a whole, the forum doesnt condone street racing..quite to the contrary, and except for a few idiots we hate the thought of someone drinking and driving..we all have a tendency to drive a heavier foot..but lets lets just be smart about it...*if there s anything smart about fast driving*..

 

those ex's are pretty zippy if he's a young one and new driver...i say just up his suspension work, he'll haev a lot of fun with that and a exhaust...i've put mods on those d series a bit ago, and it sucks and a waste of money, unless you go work and build those d series, IMO i think its a waste, save up and do it right one time, swap or FI.

 

If you plan to Autocross....I think the suspension would be the best place to start along with a good set of tires. Cold Air Intakes (CAI) are a good way and relatively cheap way to get a few hp. To avoid water getting sucked into the engine (hydrolock) make sure you buy a bypass valve along with the CAI. This will prevent any potential problems with water. AEM makes some decent systems. I have a '99 EX and have weighed my options as far as engine mods. It seems to be a waste to dump too much money into the D16Y8 engine. You'll get the most bang for your buck from a swap. I'm saving up for a swap and will be swapping in an integra engine (B18). It's worth it in the end and a swap is a piece of cake. And since reliability is an issue, it's a bit easier to make a b18 engine fast and keep it "reliable." IMO (In My Opinion). Good luck and most importantly...HAVE FUN!

 

Well, the son has narrowed down his wheel choices (ASA JS6 or KA3, in 17in.), and we'll order the tires at the same time.

He hasn't decided whether to start with mods to the suspension or I/H/E first.

If you were doing suspension on a budget (ie. you've got to do things in stages), what do you do first? New struts? Rear Sway bar? tower struts? something else entirely?

Oh, and help me with a couple of abbreviations, please. I *have* done a search, but haven't been able to sort out the answer from the many, many results.

JDM means Japanese Domestic Market?

EG means ..... what?

I do think that my boy is going to keep the car looking as stock as possible, with the exception of the wheels ... very little external evidence of mods.

Many thanks,

 

EG is the Chasis model of the JDM 92-95 hatch back.
In the states it is EH however, when the JDM craze happened everyone stayed calling them EG's.
EK is 96-00 hatch.
EJ is 92-00 Coupe (except for the 99-00 SI which is a EM)

I would do suspension first, they make a hell of a difference even on the stock car.
Go with Suspension tech's sway bar set. 240 dollars for both front and rear bar. Even though the EX has a front sway it is still larger.

The only choice for a strut/spring combo is Ground Control Coilovers. If you get springs you will regret it. (many many have)

Strut tower braces. any one piece model is the best. Expect to pay around 90-200 on the different braces.

Intake, no doubt a CAI is the most popular and favored design. 200.

Cat-back (Apexi World Sport) 400.

Header. 300. Picking a header is driver preference, and is a topic all on it's own.

I would go the route above if I could do it over again.

17's.....those are rather large and the tires get very expensive. 15's are great, most of the brakes fit under them (Integra upgrade) Also, Falken Azenias (sp?) are the stickiest damn inexpensive tire out there 50 each for the 15" and about 75-80 each for the 17".

 

well if your looking at doing the suspension first, tires and wheels are a good place to start. After that, I would look at getting a coilover shock/spring package. If you can't afford the $900+ to get a good coilover system, try getting a pair of Eibach/H&R/Neuspeed sport springs. A car lowered about 1.5 inches can sill use the stock shocks for everyday use but look at some aftermarket ones down the road. After that, a good stut tower brace and the comptech rear lower sway/tie bar combo will get your car handling much better.

 

Also, if you have not found it already http://www.groupbuycenter.com is a great place to find some deals.

Remind your son that by putting 17s on his car that it will potentially slow it down, I am personally looking at 15 or 16s, plus if he does drop the suspension he will have more of a chance to rub with the larger rims, tires are more expensive too.

For autocrossing, find a type r rear sway bar, i think you can pick up a total kit for around 120 bucks total. do a search for the beaks kit for mounting to your car.

Hope that helps some more.

 

Yes, I'll agree that 17" wheels will make the car feel even slower. Generally, the auto-x guys stick with 15" wheels (light ones at that!), or 16" wheels if their upgraded brakes won't clear the 15s. If your son's really into performance, have him look at the weight of the wheel first ( www.wheelweights.net ), then how it looks.

Although I'd go with Ground Control coilovers if I had to do it again, I have a set of Suspension Techniques springs that lowered my car 1.5". It has sufficient ground clearance for daily driving (and even some off-road excursions...) and you won't have to angle your car into parking lots in all but the steepest of driveways. I love the spring--it's sporty enough so I can drive aggressively but yet won't lift my inside wheel under power (and I have a turbo, mind you!).

My first mod was the Suspension Techniques rear anti-roll bar (just the rear one), and I still use it. 22mm of solid steel. For autocross, it's great.

It's great to see father and son working together on modifications. I'm 21, and my father and I fought tooth and nail every step of the way... even a window tint!

 

OK, so why will 17" wheels make it feel slower?

The ASA KA3 is 24 lbs, which I would hope is at least lighter than the 14" steel stock wheels.

I do understand that top speed might be slower, due to the increased contact patch, but that's all I understand.

I've been trying to steer (no pun intended) the boy to the 16", which would still be a plus 2 increase, but he's set on the 17s.

Thanks

 

Well there is many 15" rims that weight around 12 pounds which is half of what those 17's weight. And like someone said earlier if u lower the car with 17's I'll probably rub.


[Modified by Boost Pressure, 8:34 PM 8/14/2002]

 

OK, then, that brings up the next dumb question. Does the heavier wheel slow you down because of having to spin up that much mass, or is it just the weight, total (in other words, empting out the trunk would give the same effect.)

I'm still trying to steer him to the 15 or 16, but he's not receptive to the idea.

Any ideas about the weight on the stock steel 14s?

 

yeah, yeah, bad form to follow up your own post.

http://www.wheelweights.net lists the stock wheel at 18lbs, but as a cast wheel, which is only on the SI, I think.

Other stamped steel wheels in the same size are listed at 18lbs, so perhaps it is correct. I might just have to get it checked out, up close and personal.

The ASA LS5 looks nice (to me, at least) and is 17lbs for the 16, and 17.4 for the 17 (geez, I might have to get a set for my Maxima )

The LS5 looks to be very close in price to the KA3, too.

 

The Si wheel is cast, yes, but it is cast aluminum. Those weigh 16.5lbs I think. The stock EX wheels are cast STEEL. They weigh 18lbs.

Rotational mass is what you'll have to consider when going to larger wheels. Going from 18lbs to 24lbs isn't the same as removing 6lbs from your trunk (or a gallon of fuel from the tank for that matter). As the wheel rotates faster and faster, the increase in weight goes up disproportionately. A wheel rotating quickly is more reluctant in wanting to change direction, so when you're driving in auto-x events, the heavier wheel will perform less admirably.

The sweet spot for performance on the Civic is actually a 15" wheel. Just hop on over to the road-race forum and see what the guys are all running... 15" wheels. 15s also offer the largest variety of tires (not to mention the cheapest, relative to 16s and 17s) as well.

 

You confirmed what I thought about the Si and EX wheels (the wheels on our EX are the stock steel.)

I was pretty sure that the issue of rotational weight was one of the reasons that lighter wheels were better (and different that just removing an equivalent weight from the car.) I just now remembered also that unsprung weight is something that you want to reduce as much as possible.

I've told him that 15s are better for auto-x and road racing, with cheaper and more selection of tires, but I think that it's falling on deaf ears (even though I've told him it's coming from the honda-tech board.) It's his money, and his car.

Thanks for the advice. I will pass this on one more time before we order the wheels.

While I'm here, how does one move from 'trial member'? I've looked around for subscription info, etc. but haven't run across it yet.

Thanks,

 

I'd stick with 16" Less expensive rims AND tires, lighter, and still look good with lower profile tires (even 15's look good with 205/55 they're cheaper yet and are still lighter) Then I'd go with suspension upgrades... After that, you can figure out if you wanna swap or not, since he's a HS kid, pretty budgeted (like me) you'll probably go NA (naturally aspirated) In which case a good start is a Cold Air Intake (most everyone loves AEM and they hold true to be the best for the $$) Then you can go with exhaust or headers either one, (personally I'd go with exhaust first) DC makes good headers but there are better, maybe not for the $$ though... and the APEXi world sport is a good choice on exhaust...

After you get your basics done you can either finish the suspension (brakes, sway bars, etc.) or you can move on to the rest of the engine... Upgraded fuel rails, fuel pump, intake manifold, wires, spark plugs, all the little things really do help. After that it's internals (cams, pistons, lifters, rods, etc.) and then pretty much all you got left is forced induction and nos. The more you build the insides up the more shot of nos you can use.

Gen Chart
-------------------------------
5th Gen = 92-95 Civics
6th Gen = 96-00 Civics
7th Gen = 00+ Civics

Hope all this helps you some or else you've wasted a long time reading my blathering

EDIT> Oh yeah and the trial member thing? it goes away after about 20 or so days... til then you're limited to 5 posts in 24 hours... Kinda sux, I don't get to help/get info so easily

if ej is coupe whats the sedan?


[Modified by iviZeRoCooLivi, 4:40 AM 8/16/2002]

 

Just use the steelies for road racing and switch to the 17's for showing off around town.