Help, 311 WHP B20vtec NA only running high 11 !!!


We’re currently running our B20vtec golden eagle sleved block,

Engine specs was :
*PR3 Head
ORD Engineering Square Port
Skunk2 Pro 3 with Pro Series Springs n Ret

*Golden Eagle Sleeved B20
95mm custom crank
86mm custom arias gas ported piston 15.5:1
RPM custom lenght rod
Total Seal Gapless Rings

*Twin Weber 4 Barel 50mm
*ORD Engineering Side Exit Header
*VP Q16 race fuel

We’re happy with it horsepower :

the blue line is not the final tune, still moving up by changing carb jetting and ignition timing

----------------------------------------------------

Chassis, suspension, drivetrain and tyre setup :
About the chassis and suspension setup, we’re about 700kg without driver.

I’ve using cusco zero 1 suspension

Front :
16kg front springs,
Using limited strap, so the front end didnt lift up during launch

Rear : 24kg rear springs

The gearing was 3.0 ATS 1st gear with 4.0 Final Gear
The differential was none ! since we’re using Spool diff.
The Tyre was MT 24.5x9x13 with 6 psi (I think this tyre was good ennough)



-------------------------------------------------
Problems :
But we’re sad about this car ET
It clock 11.7 sec with 120mph (total time was 12.4 sec, ET 11.7sec + RT 0.6sec)
And that was the best ET ever for us, our average was only 12.0 sec
The 1st gear launch was very sucks
suck traction, maybe i think it because we're running carbs... we canot launch at lower rpm ( is it ?? )
this car spinning everywhere..

this how crappy our launch..
You could hear how long (around 2.2 second) we hold the throttle pedal before we could slam it to the floor…
and when we shift to 2nd gear, it also still spinning like mad

I know our track was sucks, It doesn’t have burnout box, and didn’t use some kinda LC6 VP on their first 10 meter.

But when I see malaysian guy that also running on the almost same track with us (no burnout box, no special treatment for its asphalt, etc).
Those singaporean and malaysian guy could clock 11.1 sec with only 290 BHP (250-260whp ish) on same dyno with us (dastek dyno).
And also H3 KUPS racing in philipines running 10.2 sec with their b20vtec on same crappy racing track just like us (you could search H3 KUPS on youtube).
So im feel really stupid by making this tons of horsepower but only running high 11 and avereaging 12.0 sec.



Please help me to improve my ET
--------------------------------------------
My next plan (i dont know if it good plan or not, please advice)
1. we plan to change with Fuel Injection (Victor X 75mm TB with Apexi FC Comander or Motec M4), because we want to launch in lower RPM, we hope we could gain more traction by launching at lower RPM. I saw H3 KUPS racing from philipines launch @ 2000rpm and they clock 10.2 second on the same crappy track just like us (indonesian drag racing track)
2. we plan to run MT 26x10.5x15 with L4 special compound to gain more traction, I know its sounds crazy. But I don’t have any idea left to improve my traction.


Please give any comment or guideline for me.



Thanks,


Merry Christmast and Happy New Year

 

post your time slips, what 60fts you getting ?

 

are you even doing a burnout? i didnt see one, so your tires arent holding what they are capable of.

and seeing the incrimentals will help.

 

in indonesia we doesnt have a burnout box with a lot of water,

we've try to warm up the car with 3-5 litre water before start,
its useless here.. even the smoke from the tyre couldnt come up !!

we threw the water from the tyre to the front of the car, then we hit handbrake, but the car still moving forward ... so it was very2 useless burnout..

and the ET was same with or without burnout..

 

i'll search it, i'll scan it and post it
2.0 sec 60ft..

 

You have to do a good burnout. I don't understand what you were saying about the water you put on the tires?

 

Do your burnout in 3rd gear gentlemen and in the waterbox if need be. 120mph is capable of low, low 11's. Best of luck.

 

he doesn't have a waterbox, but he should still be able to do a decent enough burnout without water.

 

you dont need a burnout box to do a burnout, simply light them up whereever you can, if you have to do it on the line and back up do it, you cant expect cold slicks to hook.

Why a carburetor?

 

What tyre pressure are you running?

 

That is a bhp number right? Drop me an email at info@team4piston.com and I will offer what little experience I have with a chassis like that. I had basically the same setup but with a smaller street motor in it that made 230hp and the car ran low 11s. What tranny is that?...A 4.0 FD is killing you with the power that car is making. There is a lot of power in your induction setup as well, and the Edelbrock manifold isn't the answer.

 

water just helps the tires start to spin and get em moving. ebrake on and do 2nd gear burnouts. rev it high to get em to start spinning and dump the clutch. it will spin

 

A little driver mod on the shifts may help a little too... Sounds like its losing a lot of RPM between shifts.

 

yeah i would just work on improving driver aspects and launching. 2.0 60' is terrible for that spool and slick combo. You have the power, i wouldnt change the induction setup if its making good numbers, work with what you have first. How are you at shifting?

 

use a mickey thompson slicks you dont have to do burn out.

 

Wow! That fd 4.0 and 3.0 first is killing you!! Listen to Luke he can give you some good advice.

 

That's what I was thinking. What is the rest of the transmission setup? What transmission is it besides the 1st gear and FD??? I can't see too many NA setups making 4.0 and 24.5" tires work fully, but I could be completely wrong.

P.S. I like the "Anthony Davidson" helmet. :p

 

Using http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm, & http://fatboyraceworks.com/gears/index.php It sounds like your gearing is on par with what your trap speed should be. You mentioned a pr3 head, so I am assuming that you're starting off with b16 or itr gearing. If you have a 1.107 4th (b16), then the 4.05 final and 24.5" slicks seems like it would be ideal based off of calculations in the first link.

btw blast you for inconsistent units of measurement
700kg = ~1543 lbs






.

 

The gearing is whack. Your 1st is fine if you get the right FD. Turning that motor to the RPM it needs to be it can do 160mph in 4th gear right now. You want to drive beyond your peak power, not shift there. Just buy a 4.7 or a 4.9 and turn that motor to 9500 and go from there.

No one has all the answers, but here are a few things I start with. I'm sure there are others with more experience that could give better advice. My car was similar... 1830lbs and went 11.23 @ 119 on around 230hp.

1. You have to warm the tires and you have to have a rev limiter to launch with. Short burnouts are fine. Even if you have to get one of those little yard sprayer bottles with water in it to wet the tires, spray a little bit of water on them, put the car in 2nd and hold it the best you can. It is going to pull the rear tires, but you only need that wheel speed for a couple seconds. You don't do a burnout in the water box, you roll past it. You just want the water so you don't shock the driveline when you drop the clutch.
2. Put a 4.9 in the car and turn that motor to 9500. I know it stops making power at 8400 but that is normal for a basic B series engine. Go to the track and see what you've got.
3. Get a wheelie bar on the car. I'm assuming this is ok since it is a pro style car. Make sure it is 65" and make sure it is stiff. You might start running a little more tire pressure....it is hard to say with the surface you are racing on. What you think is tire spin, might be tire shake which can occur when you have too much traction or not enough power.

That car will run low 11s no problem with just a few minor changes.

As for the motor and power...I bet it is making around 250 dynojet hp. You said you have a square port head and I'm not sure why someone did this for you, but I assume the port volume is pretty large OR they just make a big square in the entry? If it is a really large port maybe you need to switch to alcohol. There is a ton of power in your induction setup. Put your head on a flow bench by itself, flow your induction setup by itself, then flow the head with the induction on there and go from there. I'd be willing to give more pointers on the induction via email or phone.

Best of luck. A few minor adjustments and you should be able to get that car into the mid 10s.

 

sick eg whats the trap speed
Need to let me Drive that. Need to Leave the Line harder
get your 60ft in the 1.4 1.7 mabe biger Tires

 

made a post in the allmotor forum for u JT

if ur trapping close to 126mph.. we ran 10.9s with that trap.. i really think the motor is capable albeit just suspenion tweaks, tire changes and driveline change (fd)

we're doing 1.6s-1.7s 60ft.. not the best for a drag car but.. if ur doing 2.0s ? thers alot of improvement left in that set-up dont dispair

 

sup bense... duno if this works or makes sense

ours make 260+ whp, nearly the same weight.. we have a 720kg vehicle weight limit
126mph 10.9s

26x9.5 slicks 4.4 FD...

pm me if u like

 

Have you done the calculations to even see where a 1.107 b16 4th gear ends with his setup? Have you done the calculations to see what speed he should be trapping at with his power/weight combination? Before you go spouting off that he needs a taller final drive, you should run the calculations before spouting off the default "get a 4.7 or 4.9 final drive" Maybe I should just take your resolution as a default answer and go posting on the boards saying "just get a 4.7 or 4.9, rev to 9500 and go from there"

If it were up to me, the car would be running the stock 4.4 final. Giving it a 4.785 or 4.928 final with his redline would leave him shifting into 5th to gain the last 3-10 mph, which is what is trying to be avoided. It sounds like someone told them information to try to sell them a final drive. I think that the 4.4 or even a 4.266 LS final would be the shortest that they'd want to go if b16 gearing is used. And if b16 gearing isn't being used, it needs to be.

 

nice power numbers. just need a burnout and some more seat time...

 

Regardless of if he has or not, he's probably remembering what they did on his old setup and going off of those remembered calculations. The 24.5, 9500, 1.107, 4.06 combo does pretty much do 154~ mph at the end of 4th. There are how many NA 4-cylinder cars that do that? Obviously, jt-sport isn't revving to 9500 though, so that point is moot until the OP decides what he wants to do in that particular situation.

Understandable, but he may possibly have to rev higher. Not sure if that 311 is whp or bhp anymore given the trap speed and weight. I'm thinking it's bhp, or he'd be trapping easily 130 mph at that weight. And no poorly prepped track surface or cold tires or shifting and launching method will rob them of trapping at least that. I wonder how long he wants this engine to last. Perhaps that's why they're revving to 8500 with the 95mm crank...

Agreed. What is the tranny, 4piston???

I like the .986 r-square in the first link regarding 0-60 mph times and 1/4 times. Sexy!