I recently purchased a 1994 Civic EX coupe 5 speed. It is bone stock save for the amber JDM corners and car bra. Car currently has 191k miles on it.

I'll start with my goals. First and foremost I plan to build this car for a daily driver with possible winter (snow) use. That idea may get pitched out the door since I already have a beater to drive in the winter, but just something to keep in mind. I want to keep the car reliable, able to run on pump gas and still retain good gas mileage (35+ highway), and not be a PITA to drive. I'm looking to build it to handle 200 WHP, possibly more depending on what's going to be safe and not cost a ton of money.

Now, my dilemma. Currently the car has a stock D16Z6 with the EX hyrdo tranny. My original idea is to boost it. From what I read, the D16Z6 is a decent motor to boost on with it's 9.2:1 CR, decent flowing head, and availability for parts. I was also considering swapping it. What I was thinking though is that it makes much more sense to boost this instead of swapping something else in. I love the gas mileage, ease to work on, and reliability of the D motors, which is why I figured I would stick with it.

From what I figure a B18B1 swap will run me at least 1500 bucks, and that will be for a motor that may need work/not knowing it's condition. I figure for that price I could have a full turbo setup, pieced together of course, not a kit. I would assume that a turbo setup could put me easily near the 200 WHP mark, especially since the car has 130 HP stock. I know some of you will say that the B18B1 will make more power with a turbo, but then you're talking close to 3000 dollars with swap and turbo kit, possibly more. I know for 3000 dollars I could build a pretty mean D16 that would be able to handle 250 WHP or more, especially if I had built up the head and bottom end.

That was my whole reason for sticking with the D16 turbo idea. Even if I went bigger on the swap (LS/VTEC, B16B, GS-R, or Type-R) I'd be getting a motor that I didn't know the history behind or how well it ran before it was pulled. Also, those swap listed are going to be much more expensive than 1500 dollars, more like into the range of 2000+, especially the Type-R setups.

What are your guy's thoughts on this? Is there any advantages I would have doing a swap to something else? Are there any other viable swaps that are going to be better than a turbo D16Z6 in the long run?

Thank you.

 

ill be honest, if your goals are 200hp you can easily do that all motor with a b series vtec or b20vtec for example. all said and done somewhere around 2000-2500 bucks can get you that power tuned out the door, but that wouldnt be in the forced induction spirit lol

many motor distributors have ls longblocks with low miles and warranties fs for 700-900ish. you can find ls trannys for 400, combined with all other miscellaneous crap 1500 should get u the motor in the car which is around the same price for you to get the z6 redone. stock ls on a good tune can handle mid 200s up to around 300 with little issues.

what ive found is that the z6 will make similar power and tq #s to the ls, but will take a few more psi to do so and since either motor ready to handle mid 200s up toward 300 will cost about the same to acquire, its really up to preference i think.


if i had to put together a z6 turbo setup right now, heres how i'd do it.
clean the block, go .020" over to 75.5mm.
eagle rods and either vitaras or see if i could find a good deal on some srp's perhaps
arp headstuds (a definate must imo, even if everything else is stock)
stock head would most likely work ok, but id probably get a cheap blox intake manifold
definately need a clutch too

turbo setup would be based off a t3t4 50 trim or similarly sized turbo, most likely with a .48 exhaust a/r. neptune/s300/ectune for management. setup should make a solid 300whp all day long


either find a used turbo kit or piece one together hunting down the good deals.(avoid ebay cheap crap pplleeaasssee)
id imagine you can get the motor done for 1000-1500 max depending on if you do your own assembly. turbo kit id allot around the same, so you are really looking at about 2500ish.


of course you can always just diy junkyard turbo setup your current motor without taking anything apart, but id bet to say that it will not hold out as well or as long as if you did it up the first time.

 

Thank you for the info.

The only problem with doing 200 HP on an all motor B series VTEC is that that's essentially the limit of that motor. If down the road I wanted more power out of it I'd be out of luck. Also, I'd imagine that would be a high(er) compression setup, meaning turboing it would be risky. I just don't want to reach the potential of the engine and not be able to go any further without having to rebuild everything. I know that they can make more than 200 WHP, but since you'd basically have to stay all-motor there's not much more room for upgrades. Turbo seems too risky on any of the DOHC VTEC setups, which are usually 10:1 CR or higher. I know they are able to be turbo'd, but with a CR that high, you're asking for problems. Is there anything extra you'd be getting out of the swap besides a possibly better tranny with LSD? Obviously though the LSD trannies are expensive to attain also.

Like I said, if I were to turbo the LS, I'd be looking at quite a bit more. I'm sure with the swap it'd be at least around 3000, whereas if 3000 was put into the D16 I have now I'd have a very well built D series that could handle 250 WHP without problem and be very safely built. Like you're saying, price wise, if I were to swap in a B series I'd end up with a stock B series whereas the money I'd put into a swap I could put into the D series and build it up rock solid. The 1500 dollars or so I'd spend on the B series swap just by itself would be enough to deck out my D series to handle 300 WHP on a turbo very safely. Then you figure in another 1500 dollars for the turbo kit and I've got a D series that can do 300 WHP safely and handle 7300+ RPM.For 3,000 I'd maybe be able to swap in the B series and setup a turbo on it with a stock motor, which obviously wouldn't be as safe as the D series I had built up to handle the boost.

Like you said, I could junkyard turbo it, but I'd rather just do it the right way the first time. I will most likely be doing this all myself with some help from a few people that have put a few engines together. I plan on doing this slowly so that I do it right and not mess anything up, not to mention I'd rather not have to rush things in the process.

And lastly for this post - is there any advantage to running a hatch compared to a coupe? I understand the hatch is usually lighter, but anything else really?

 

come to ej1ownersclub.com we can help you there

 

lol is there an ej2ownersclub for people who want 200lbs weight reduction? j/k (i miss my ej1 terribly. god damn thieves)


original poster, sounds like you will turn out just fine with whatever you choose. plan it out and do it right. dont forget tuning is critical, get a good ems and a good tune

 

nice plug, f a g g o t

 

also, to OP.. I didn't read your entire post, but stick with the d16z6 and just throw some DSM turbo parts on it.. you'll see 200whp easy with 10psi and lightning quick spool from a td05h for about 200 bucks total if you do the work yourself

 

Yea, all of the work will be done myself besides possible machining, valve work, etc. since I don't have access to that equipment. I'm sure I'll get stick with my D16Z6. The motor in the car runs very healthy and no problems before I blew the clutch out of it. I'll probably just pull this motor and trans and build it up since there were no issues with it meaning rebuilding it should be fine. I know the B series may make more power on boost, but for the money I'd put into a swap and turboing it I'm sure my D16Z6 will end up very built and turbo'd much more safe and reliable, not to mention better gas mileage.

Seriously though, are there any advantages to the B series besides being able to make more power with it? Are they any stronger than the D series? Better tranny choices? Something else I'm missing?

 

d16 has a longer stroke than the b16 and gsr (i think), giving you more low end torque.. the top end is choked by the poor flowing head. just replace the clutch and boost the stock motor if it's running strong. you'll see 200whp pretty safely if you do it right.

 

go read up at d16turbo.com

 

better spool response, more power on less boost, better high power potential, lower occurances of head lift under boost and the tranny choices.

since your power goals arent astronomical, stick with the d. you said your motor is running strong, ever do a compression/leakdown test? if thats all gravy and you only want 200hp, put some arp studs and change the hg as well (tb and waterpump too if you didnt do it at 180k). drop the clutch in and go to town(aka dyno tuning). advice though is buy a turbo/injectors etc that arent maxxing out at your current power goals. leave room for future growth if you do build the motor or want 300+ it will save you cash in the long run

 

nice plug ***got.

 

I can understand the better spool response due to having a DOHC motor since it will flow better, but there's always the ability to port the Z6 head and give it a valve job which should make it flow decently. I understand it still won't flow as well as the DOHC setup, so that's something I'll just have to deal with. I can also understand more power on less boost due to it being a bigger motor with larger displacement and it beng able to make more power for that reason also. Chance of head lifting less is true too since I'm sure it has more bolts holding the head down than the SOHC. Tranny choices are also more apparent but unfortunately, the good trannies cost a lot of money i.e. GS-R or Type-R. Now, my rebuttle on this.

Is the spool response really going to be that much slower in my D series unless I'm running a large turbo? I figure with aftermarket manifolds and ported head that it should flow very well and make power very efficiently. Since I'm not shooting for any large amount of power I shouldn't really need to worry about not being able to make as much as a B series, but obviously that really doesn't become an issue until you're pushing 350+ WHP I'd imagine. Up until then the D series and B series would be very close I'd imagine. Obviously in order to decrease on head lift I'd run ARP studs. After I put those in correctly would I really need to worry so much about the head lifting, especially if I was 300 WHP or below? What advantages do the B series trannies have over the D series besides possible LSD?

Keep in mind I don't want a short geared tranny since this is a DD and will see highway use, so I'd like to keep gas mileage at an optimum. Basically right now I'm just getting an idea whether I will swap or keep the Z6 and what my options are which is why I'm also asking about trannies, strength of motor, advantages/disadvantages, etc.

 

one of the issues of making 350+ on a d is as follows: any turbo that can do that power efficiently is going to become laggy feeling, especially something with a journal bearings. i dunno maybe looking at full spool in the 4500-5krpm range (which only give you around 2500 rpm powerband or so) spool can be combated with the tune and the turbo kit itself however.

the arps will cure the headlift issue. about 6 years ago i had a stock z6 turbo. it was a .60/.48 60 trim t3. full boost of 7ish psi was by 3500-3800 and it held beautifully to 7200. felt sooo smooth no real lag no noticeable turbo hitting hard. it was perfect....until it started lifting the head and filling up the coolant overflow. i guess thats the problem of the thieves who stole it now......



currently im finishing up a turbo setup for a sohc vtec turbo motor with vitaras and eagles. the turbo kit is a full lovefab with ramhorn manifold and the works. my goal for it is 300hp. im not gonna spend cash on a ball bearing turbo, and i feel 300hp efficiently is really pushing a straight t3. im looking to put a 50 trim t3t4 with a .48 exhaust a/r on it. id hope to have full spool somewhere in the mid 4000 rpm range.


for the trannys, heres what i got off a gearing calculator. this rev limit was set in at 7300 and the tire size (which matters) is 23.0" tall or a 205/50/15

Gear ShiftRPM Speed @ 7300 RPM
1st N/A 36.2
2nd 4288 61.6
3rd 4780 94.0
4th 5309 129.3
5th 5638 167.4
RPM in top gear at 75 mph: 3270

with that being said, youd want to pick a turbo that will be at full spool at the listed rpms, as thats when you would drop back into gear. this will avoid falling out of boost

 

He could always run a 22" slick at the track, this would help. Since with his power he wont need much more. That is really all he should be concerned about anyways unless hes an avid street racer. A few hundred RPM of lag from 1st to 2nd isn't a big deal, helps with traction !

 

Just to start, thank you so much for the help guys.

Basically from what you're telling me, the B series doesn't really have an advantage over the B series until 350+ WHP since the D series can make just as much power smoothly as the B series can. Obviously since the B series will flow better and has a higher displacement it will outdo the smaller and less flowing D series after that. Good to know that the headstuds will solve the headlift problems. If I was going to turbo a B series I'd do the studs anyways so that I didn't have to worry about headlift, so that wouldn't be anything different than putting them on the D series of mine.

I can see being able to use the GS-R or Type-R trannies being advantageous to a D series since they are technically stronger (made for a bigger motor with slightly higher power) and that they had the option for a LSD, but obviously we'd be talking about 3000 dollars or more to swap something like that in without a turbo kit, in which case I could build up and turbo the D series for at least that, making it handle more power and make much much more power than any stock B series motor.

Thanks for the trans readout too. If I were to build up the motor I'd be investing into rods, pistons, headwork, and valvetrain work, so I'd imagine I could run higher than the 7300 RPM limit. IIRC, the car runs about 3200 RPM at 75 MPH right now, so that's good news. Full spool at mid 4000 RPM's would probably be a good idea for a street car, especially if I were to drive the car in the snow. That way it's not going into full boost if the tires spin taking off in the snow, causing me to get even less traction. I can imagine that shouldn't be a problem finding a turbo that would be at full boost at 4300 RPM, especially if I had porting work done with some decent manifolds and exhaust.

From what I've gathered, the only B series motors that are trully worth turboing are the B18B1's. It seems like the B20's are not good motors to turbo and they do not make power very well. The DOHC VTEC motors have too high of compression to run them on boost unless you were to put different pistons in and in which case I'd be in the same boat as the D16Z6, having to build it up. Not saying the D16Z6 is too high of compression, just that I'd rather put stronger pistons in it than the stockers.

 

For your power goals I would just boost the D. There cheaper and love boost. Only thing I have upgraded internally on my d is Arp headstuds and new oem headgasket. 2 years 130,000+ no issues. Compression is still 185 +- 1 in all four cylinders.

P.s. Don't forget tuning. Very important.

 

Your lil D16Z6 will handle about 220hp with stock internals and a nice tune, still have 35+hwy. Then when your tired of only boostin 7-8 pounds, pull the motor take the bottom end apart and rebuild with eagle rods and vitara pistons, then go back to your tuner and max your turbo out if you dnt want to go larger. Maybe just invest now in a very efficient bb turbo if you keep the d. They are very simple engines to work with and dnt need much.

Like ^ arp studs would be your first purchase if you did boost the D.

 

www.d-series.org
www.turbod16.com

 

Alright, now I'm sure that I'll be sticking with my D16Z6 and boosting it. Maybe sometime down the road when I feel like performing a swap I will but for now, the SOHC stays. I can understand if you want 350+ WHP that the B series would be a good idea then, but for me, that's too much power for a daily driver Civic, especially since that power won't get used but 5% of the time I drive it.

Before I actually start talking about specific parts, I guess it would be a good idea to get a few things out of the way.

Now, I've got a couple other questions. Is it possible that I can build up the motor first and prepare it for turbo and then actually put the turbo kit on? I feel like it would be a good idea to let the motor get broken in first before setting out on putting the turbo on. I figure that I could build everything up first and then put the turbo on. Is this a good idea or just a fairy tale?

Nextly, what's the limit that I'd be pushing the car where I'd be questioning it's structural integrity? I figured with some rods, pistons, main studs, head studs, headwork, valvetrain, manifolds, tuning, crank balancing, etc. that 300 WHP should be still quite safe. After I had gone over all that the only weak link I can think of are the sleeves, which are supposed to be able to handle 500 WHP I guess. That seems kind of high to me. What's going to keep me safe, reliable, and good gas mileage?

 

When you start talking about the future, that's when EVERYTHING changes. You may not even want a Honda in 2 years (I've seen this happen a LOT), so keep your mind in the present. FYI if you live in an area with tons of fast cars, 200whp won't be enough. However, the midwest generally doesn't have that issue. A 200whp D16 daily driver will seem fast as hell for quite a while.

Since its apparently your fisrt turbo Honda (or turbo anything?), piece together a basic kit from the HT marketplace. You can get used parts dirt cheap, and even new parts cheap. Turbo size would be anything between a 50trim T3 to 50trim T3/T04E. Then put on your parts, get a tune before you drive it hard, then enjoy then same 35mpg-capible motor while having 2x more power.

If you want to talk about future-proofing it, here's what I'd do. Do the above, except only get used parts. Don't try to make it a show car, that costs far more. Next get a running B18A/B, build the bottom end, then swap it in and boost it. All you really need is a different manifold and the downpipe modified. If you got a small used turbo, you can still sell if for what you got it for & upgrade to a bigger snail. The B18B head can actually make decent power, but your end-goal is to get & build a vtec head. Afterwards you can do whatever you want.

 

You're right, the Midwest generally doesn't have a ton of fast cars that are daily cars, more-so they are 1/4 mile cars. I see you live in South Wisconsin, where at exactly? I live in Dubuque, IA, which is right across the river from Wisconsin. I've driven a lot of cars that stock had 250-300 HP but most of them just weren't that fun (350Z, LS2 GTO, etc.) compared to driving my 130 HP Civic. Idk what it is about Honda, but I love them. I had a 94 Accord EX before and that's what got me really into Honda. I since traded it for this Civic, which I love even more. My girlfriend has a pretty mint 97 DX MTX that I've done a lot of maintainence work on and I really like her car a lot and she can't live without it. I've got a few friends with other Hondas/Acuras, so the love has grown. The only other car I would ever consider for a daily driver besides a Honda/Acura would be a Subaru WRX, but after putting a turbo on my Civic I'm not so sure I'll still want one. I've daily driven a ton of different cars (88 Mustang which was pretty modded, 87 RX-7, Cavalier, tons of other beaters) but the Hondas I've driven are still so much nicer and fun to drive.

This is my first turbo Honda yes. I had a 90 Probe GT 2.2 turbo for a couple years that I drove as a daily driver and it was a very fun beater. I had picked it up for 700 bucks and drove it pretty hard before finally blowing out the differential. I learned a lot about turbos when I had that car as I had torn it apart to do all the maintainence (timing belt, plugs, valve adjustment, etc.). I understand how turbo systems work and all that, especially since I'm an Automotive Technician, so I've been through lots of schooling on them, and not only with gas vehicles, but diesels as well.

I plan on doing this job the right way and slowly. My idea is to take about a year to get this all done, slowly building it up so that it's right the first time instead of rushing it. Everytime I've rushed to get a project done something would get messed up - haste makes waste, ya know. I've never built a turbo setup from scratch before, but I do have a lot of help. My girlfriend's brother-in-law does a lot of welding fabrication for turbo setups and he knows cars in and out. He custom made the turbo piping for his 4.6 DOHC 65 Fastback Mustang along with welding much of the suspension also. My girlfriend's brother also knows cars very well too.

I'll be most likely buying some of the parts used and some of them new. I would rather future-proof the car now rather than risk blowing it up on the stock internals. That way I would only have to tear into the car once instead of multiple times. This won't be a show car, but it will be a nice car when I'm done that will be used as a daily driver. I'm not sure yet if I'll drive it in the snow or not, but at this point I'm leaning towards not driving it in the snow and picking up a Wrangler later next year. The B18B is something I'd build far down the road after I had perfected the setup on the D series to the point that I needed more power, which won't be for a long time I'm thinking.

 

very solid advice. you will learn a ton by doing this, from how it all works to what parts work together etc. i did it and i learned a ton and had fun.

honestly you can build the motor now and boost later, but the best way to break in a motor is to run it hard on a good tune.

 

Yea, I plan on doing lots of shopping around for my parts. Like I said, if I take it slow it gives me time to find and buy my parts instead of just buying it at the easiest place to find it. Shopping around always saves you a ton of money.

Alright, I'll just build it all from the get go then drop it in the car. I didn't know that as long as the tune was setup correctly you could boost right away. I thought that you needed to let the rings, bearings, springs, etc. get worked in slowly before you started beating on it right away.

Basically from what I gather the end setup for making the most power with a turbo is to build a LS/VTEC motor right? That's something I could always build on the side I guess after a while. Obviously that's going to take some more time to get a decent setup on and may be slightly more complicated than building my D16Z6.

Now that I've got most of the general questions out of the way, I've got a few last ones before I start getting into more detailed stuff. Are there any specific transmissions I should be looking at or is my EX tranny pretty much the top of the line? I like having hydro tranny and don't think I want to switch backwards to cable, but I wasn't sure if it was worth having cable over hydro.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

Anything to add? Figured I'd give this a Christmas Eve bump.