okay first of all ive searched and read:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=176323
http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/carclassing.html

after reading a combonation of these three sources i am still confused to ****.

the car is a 93 civic dx coupe. came stock with 1.5 d15b7 non vtec, 9.5 front brakes, drum rears. some of these sources ive found using the search button denote that i can swap parts along the same model/line. but forgive me as im still cloudy on this. i plan to began building my car to street prepared specifications. i need a few things cleared up along the lines of:

engines: Is it legal if i take the motor from any 92-95 civic engine and still be legal in SP. such as sohc vtec or dohc vtec. since both were found in the 92-95 civic? would something as a sohc vtec swap mean im converting my car to ex spec and allow me to run in the same class as a ex? the reason i ask is because my d15 currently is blowing smoke and have a complete z6 swap ready to go in.

transmissions: this is another "along the same line" issue. i have a sohc vtec EX/Si tranny. would it be legal on 93 dx and still be SP legal? can i change gearing such as the FD or such? i understand that different differentials are allowed.

brakes: on the milwaulkee check off chart, it noted that changing rotor size was a legal "yes" in SP. on my 93 dx could i change to the ex abs 10.2 size brakes of the same year civic? what about drums? could i run 93 ex disc instead of drum? is that legal or am i restricted to whatever a dx had between the years of 92-95?

camber kit: im confused on the legality of camber kits in SP. My main issue for a camber kit isnt track performance right now but instead tire wear as my car is daily driven.

the moutons rules note:
"On vehicles with strut-type suspensions, adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut, and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted but the center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber places are permitted"

is this allowing pillow ball mount types or can i run the simple skunk2 upper arm style kit and a simple rear camber kit in the back also and be legal in SP or no?

body work: "Fenders and bumpers may be modified for tire clearance. Flares may be added although tires may extend beyond the body work. Replacement of complete flared fenders or quarter panels is prohibited. " may so sound silly but due to my wheel well liners being torn up i just tore them out completely. is this a biggy?


thanks a lot for any help. i have searched so bear with me. just didnt clear things up as much as i wanted to. i also have been reading this from moutons:
"Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if
(a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken,
(b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes).
The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not be updated/backdated until approved by the SEB and published in SportsCar magazine. "

this is throwing me a off a bit. so thanks for any help guys.

btw my first autox was f*ckin fun. i used to race aba bmx and it reminds me so much of it. im hyped about getting into it competetively on a local circuit perhaps so this is i am so interested in these rules. thanks.


[Modified by JaeOne3345, 8:13 AM 7/31/2002]

 

First off...

Buy a rule book.

I'm not a honda expert, but here are what appear to tbe the relevant listings in the rulebook (I bought one).

in CSP:
Civic SOHC VTEC ('92-'95)

in FSP:
Civic ('92-'95) NOC

Since your car is not a VTEC car, then you can update and backdate with parts from any of the other '92-95 non-VTEC Civics (not CRX's, not integras, not accords, just '92-'95 Civics that don't have VTEC).

So, NO you can no put the VTEC motor in it. If you put the VTEC motor in it, you might be able to run CSP if you updated every applicable part to the VTEC car's specs (interior, brakes, gauges, steering rack, EVERYTHING).

The only way your transmission is legal is if it were an option or standard equipment on the non-VTEC cars.

If you are *lucky* yould put the VTEC motor in and run in CSP, but I can't answer that one for sure.

The rulebook does not allow brake changes except the standard update-backdate changes, so the EX brakes are not allowed on your car.

I'll leave further arguments to others, but I don't think you will be able to do what you want and remain in street prepared.

 

I am going to answer this from the EX CSP position since there are multiple ways to interpret much of this.

Observe:


ANY SOHC motor can be used but the DOHC cars are on a different line. You can use ANY USDM SOHC VTEC Civic motor from 1992-1995 in CSP. If you retain your DX motor it will put you in FSP and *most* of what you want to do will be illegal.
LSDs are allowed. FD is not legal to be changed unless it was a USDM option in the car line you are running (1992-1995 SOHC Civic). The use of the EX tranny is probably ok but it is kind of a grey area in regards to the rules interpretation. There is a line that reads that things such as engines/trannys/FDs need to be replaced as an assembily. You may run into some conflicts having an EX tranny without an EX motor. Make sense?
Only to an available size within the rules line of 1992-1995 SOHC Civic.
If it is a USDM brake system then yes you can run it.
Then raise your car back up to an acceptable ride height.
Howard Duncan ruled recently that pillow-ball setups are legal. I do not know enough about the Skunk2 kit to tell you if it is legal or not. I can tell you that anytime you get into parts such as control arms you are walking a thin line.
Yes. The inner fender liner may be modified BUT NOT removed entirely.
See the image above. When they refer to a "line" they are referring to the actual line of text. YOUR line of available cars to work with is the 1992-1995 SOHC Civic.
This means that the parts need to be a direct bolt-on swap. You cannot modify the parts or make adaptors to facilitate the use of these items. If they don't bolt right on then they are illegal.
This is what I eluded to before in the tranny section. Apparently the motor is considered an entire unit. You can't take an EX head and legally put it on a DX bottom end. Those are considered components of a unit. Your EX tranny must contain all EX parts. If the DX had a more favorable FD then you really need to run the DX tranny. LSDs are the only exception to this.
Exactly as it says. Your car is listed so don't worry about this.
I think trannys are not considered part of the engine "unit". This is the grey area I am speaking of. I could be wrong however. If they are their own unit then the EX tranny is legal on a DX motor.
Not in FSP however if he runs in CSP then it is legal.

 

drew i appreciate your help.

regarding my fender lining missing...how many people would actually care honestly? (im not being a smart ***,,,serious question). would it be a big spectacle "oooh he doesnt have fender lining". couldnt it just be interpreted as a modification to allow for my tires?

and with the camber kit deal. if there was car equipped with mcpherson style suspension, allowed to run the adjustable camber plates, y is this any different from a car with double wishbone with a skunk 2 or ingalls arm style camber adjustment kit? anyone got any opinions on the back? as far as washers go? do people complain about those too?

thanks. u guys are a big help

 

If you're at a local event no one will care so you're probably fine. National level events can be trickier. I've never seen something like this but I've heard of protests over silly stuff.
We can't, unfortuantly, run Camber kits in sp... STS yes. SP no. I've heard a rumor that this may change for next year (don't count on it). A camber kit you might even get complaints on a local level. I wouldn't worry too much if you're just out to have fun, or if you're not winning.

 

Because a double wishbone suspension is superior to a strut suspension. The rules are attempting to equalize the playing field and allow strut suspensions with crappy camber curves to be competitive with something that inherently has better camber characteristics.

It's a matter of opinion if the allowance for camber plates in SP is equalizing with or "punishing" a double wishbone suspension.

 

alright..i think im just gonna do what i want to my car..and get my *** kicked in SM..since im doing this for my own enjoyment...thanks..

 

in SP if you change the motor, you must keep the tranny with it.

In 1997-early 1999, the DX's were NOC and fell into DSP. I was running with A1 Wabbits and was evenly matched. In mid 1999 SCCA decided to put ALL 92-95 Civics in CSP with the Miatas, I didn't stand a chance. This change in midseason meant I could not get 5 runs in either clubs to even contend for a championship.
Since then I've only autoxed once.

BTW avoid 2-1 downshifts at all costs, else you break a shifter fork.

1998 CincySCCA DSP winner
1998 CSCC DSP runner up.

 

>>In mid 1999 SCCA decided to put ALL 92-95 Civics in CSP with the Miatas, I didn't stand a chance.<<

All SOHC VTEC Civics that is... All 92+ non-VTEC Civics went to FSP. Mista! With the skills you bring to the table, I can't believe you haven't tackled Street Mod yet!

Also, with regards to the camber kit issue, it is legal to install certain types of camber kits, but as someone stated, they do have to be the pillow-ball type. Here's the logic... The basic configuration of a double wishbone suspension forms a triangle. The control arms forming 2 sides, and the chassis forming the other. The problem with an adjustable control arm or a "shim" type of camber kit is that the geometry of that triangle is changed, thus altering the suspension geomety, and thus being illegal for SP. Pillow-ball camber kits allow for camber changes without altering the geometry of that triangle, just it's orientation to the ground. Not that there probably isn't some sort of change in geometry even with the pillow-ball camber kits, but that's the "logic". I dunno about the STS rules, but unless they have made specific allowances for the other types of camber kits, I'm not aware that they're legal there either.

 

I'm going to take issue with what some have said here.

You CANNOT build an EX/Si (by putting the SOHC VTEC in your car) to run CSP. The body shells are different (the SOHC VTEC 92-95 have moonroofs and more sound insulation).

Your only option for Street Prepared is to use ONLY NON-VTEC PARTS from 92-95 Civics and run in FSP. The Civic DX is acually quite competitive in FSP.

Your current transmission is not legal for FSP or CSP in your car. The final drive and individual gears may not be changed unless it is part of a legal update/backdate. In your car, it is not a legal update/backdate because the SOHC VTEC cars are listed on a seperate line from the non-VTEC cars.

Pillow ball mounts are legal. However they nothing in a double-A-arm suspension. The Skunk2 kit is a new control arm and is illegal. Your only legal methods for adjusting camber and caster are a) ride height and b) eccentric/offset bushings in the control arms.

Inner fenders may be modified but not removed. So, just cut each one down to a 1" diameter circle and hold it in place by one of the stock screws. Problem solved.

 

lmao

 

>>Pillow ball mounts are legal. However they nothing in a double-A-arm suspension.<<

?

Can you explain further?

 

The pillow ball mounts are the doohicky at the top of the strut/shock.

On a double-A-arm suspension (like all 92-95 Hondas), the shock does not locate the spindle assembly - the UCA and LCA have that job. So replacing the shock top bushing with something stiff or adjustable really doesn't give you anything.

On a McP strut type suspension, the upper strut mount can be used to align the suspension, so the pillow ***** are usually adjustable in some way (slotted holes, eccentric bushing, something like that).

[edit] canont tpye.


[Modified by Crack Monkey, 2:23 PM 8/1/2002]

 

Gotcha! I didn't think about that in the context of my message.

Delrin bushings are about the only way to go if you want big camber changes, but the good thing about a double wishbone suspension is that it tends to be a little "kinder" to tires that like a lot of camber. With Hoosier radials, you can get away with 1.8-2 degrees (attainable by lowering the car) on our cars where others need closer to 3.

 

SCCA pissed me off badly over that move. I sorta got out of autox at that point. My BFG R1's haven't seen pavement in 3 years, gotta be hard as a rock!