if i have a 90 civic dx, am i allowed to put an engine from a 90 civic si or civic si-r into and compete in stock or street prepared, provided i list my vehicle as a si or si-r?


[Modified by serious, 9:09 AM 5/1/2002]

 

Engine swaps allowed in street prepared should only be for same motor (Check the rules). Any other (ZC, B series) will put you in Street Mod, which can be a good class locally if it is used, but you will run against heavily prepared small bore turbo cars at the national level.

 

They are as follows:

Stock:
- allowed only for same model of the same year and production lineage (ie: USDM to USDM)

Street Prepared:
- Any motor available in any vehicle on the SAME LINE in the rulebook. For example in ESP the Mustang line reads "1994+ Mustang All". This means that I can take a 1997 Mustang V6, drop a 1995 Cobra R 351 into it and still be legal HOWEVER the motor needs to retain its production parts with the exception of the allowed mods. Also - the motor needs to be replaced as a unit. For example, if the Cobra R 351 heads flowed better than the regular 302 units, and they would bolt to a 302 you COULD NOT legally put them onto your 302.

Prepared:
- I am not sure about these but I think it is basically any motor from the manufacturer of the chassis is allowed.

Modified:
- Any motor can be used in anything.

Street Mod:
- Any motor from the chassis manufacturer is allowed. FI is allowed on 3.0L and smaller motors.

Street Touring:
- Swaps are not allowed (I think)

 

Stock = No, absolutely not.

Street Prepared = Yes, under certain conditions. The engine must be sourced from a vehicle listed on the same line of the index of street prepared cars. This would fall under the update/backdate rules. For a 90 Civic DX, this would let you use the engine from any non-Si 88-91 Civic or CRX. So the 90 Si motor is illegal, as is the Si-R motor.

For Street Mod, any engine from the manufacturer of the original engine may be used. So, any Acura/Honda engine is fair game, assuming it fits without cutting apart the unibody. Due to its light weight, the 90 Civic could do quite well in Street Mod. Be aware that Street Mod allows significant changes to suspension geometry, drivetrain, and engine - it will cost big bucks to play nationally.

[edit]Damn, Drew beat me to it.[/edit]


[Modified by Crack Monkey, 9:59 AM 5/1/2002]

 

Street Mod is owned by 700HP single turbo Supras and 500HP AWD Talons . . .

 

even if u have a d15 in ur civic as stock and u put in the d16 from the same year si, u'll still get bumped to another class. it is my understanding that in order to do such an engine change, you would have to build an si inclusing interior, sunroof, ect.

 

That is absolutely not true. You can't do anything like that in stock, Street Prepared only allows the swaps from the same lines so either it is there or it isn't (I know that all 1984-1987 Civic HBs and CRXs are considered the same car in CSP). The rest of the classes it just doesn't matter.



[Modified by Cobra, 1:11 PM 5/1/2002]

 

We'll see about that
Check http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...ter/index.html for the results throughout the weekend.

John -- #192 SM

 

Yeah I guess it would be kinda hard for Rafferty to take it when he isn't even registered.

I would really like to see someone with a little bit of talent get into Dennis Grant's car. I think that car could do some serious damage if he wasn't the driver.


Cobra - Who would like to see the S4s beat up in SM but knows they are probably too heavy to get it done

 

Corey got it done by far at the Pro Finale last year in the S4 and did well at Nationals too. The BMW's are going to be a real threat in SM in the Tours. Terry Baker for one has put together a MEAN BMW. a 325 with a 3.0l M motor. So the car weighs about 2500 lbs right now ( has not lightened it too much yet) and is putting real good HP down in a car that can handle.

I would love to see someone else try DG car as well. Fedja comes to mind considering how well he did in his ESP Talon.

As for the original posted question. I would suggest you learn to drive the car you have before you even consider doing a swap. You swap engines and you are going to be chasing the car setup trying to get it to handle that you will never know if you are improving as a driver and watching stock cars mop the floor with you simply because of driver experience. I know this is not what you probably want to hear, but it is better to learn to drive and get familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the car you have. Get more knowledge about what is mods are allowed for the different classes and then decide the direction you want to go. Than just go changing the car blindly and then getting throw to the wolves cause you made a mod that bumps you into a class way over the capability of your car regardless the driver.

 

Only on open courses with big sticky tires. Otherwise the cars weight and turbo lag will kill you.....

Ryan - who has autocrossed a 350+ hp Eclipse a buncha times and hates balky shifters and boost lag

 

This is a common misconception. Horsepower can be used advantageously on even tight courses. Even at Harry Grove it is rare that the top CSP time is faster than the top BSP or ESP time.

 

But not when you have a big honkin' turbo and it has 2-3 seconds of lag when you get on it in 2nd gear. Even though the harry grove lot is the size of a postage stamp With sticky tires, that eclipse would be a monster. On RE730's though, hard to carry enough speed through tight turns in 2nd get to keep the turbo spooled.

Solutions to the problem on the AWD Eclipse:
Downshift to 1st in tight turns (hard to do/wastes time with balky shifter)

Feather the clutch through the turn to keep 'on boost' (i dont do this because its not my car)

Wait and twidle thumbs until boost comes, and then hold on to steering wheel with both hands

 

the reason i'm looking into doing a swap is because during the summer i haul around (at least) three guys, bikes, and gear to races (downhill bike) and the engine i have now is pretty anemic with that much weight, and is even worse in the mountians, so the extra 40 hp would come in real handy.

to be honest, the reason i'd want to autocross isn't to compete against other people, only against myself, and to learn how to handle my car. i'd probably be about as happy with a bunch of cones in a parking lot and a stopwatch.

 

so then it doesnt matter what class youre in anyway. sm2 is a decent class anyway.

and its torque youre looking for, not hp, so go with a LS swap.

 

i understand, but the zc is a direct bolt in, the ls swap requires quit a bit of modification. the zc would give me 20 ft/lbs more torque.

 

Getting off topic here...

Boost lag is not much of an issue if you drive in a boost friendly way.

Left foot brake everywhere, and you will always have some boost. Back when the RX7 turbo was the car to have in Super Stock, this was the way it was done. You would round a turn, both feet in action, as soon as you got off the brakes, you were at full boost ready to go.

Scott

 

Good call. I am starting to learn this technique, and its kind of akward. I am sure this will help in this case, but the car has slippery leather seats and a very tight footwell area, and while sliding around in the seat i find its very hard to position my feet such that i can left foot brake. The left foot is usually used to brace myself against the dead pedal.

RJ

 

Honestly, RWD and AWD weights are too low for a FWD car to be able to win. If you want to even consider running a FWD car in SM, you'd better be at the minimum weights allowed.

More power to you though


[Modified by Todd00, 4:38 PM 5/1/2002]

 

The ZC motor is a torqueless POS. The D16A6 motor is a much better choice. There is a reason the ZC motor came with one of the shortest honda gearsets known to mankind...

Heck, just do the MPFI swap on your 90 DX motor (d15b2). That will give you a very decent upgrade in the amount of power.


[Modified by Todd00, 4:42 PM 5/1/2002]

 

how could the d16a6 be a better choice? it has less rated hp and less rated torque.

 

I'm seeing a lot of people talking about huge hp in SM.
I honestly thing the fastest Street Mod cars will have less power and less weight.
Better power/weight plus better handling. Fat tires can only do so much for handling. Wrong-wheel-drive might not be the hot ticket, but I think a 510 with a swap would be just about ideal.

 

Quote:

Street Prepared:
- Any motor available in any vehicle on the SAME LINE in the rulebook. For example in ESP the Mustang line reads "1994+ Mustang All". This means that I can take a 1997 Mustang V6, drop a 1995 Cobra R 351 into it and still be legal HOWEVER the motor needs to retain its production parts with the exception of the allowed mods. Also - the motor needs to be replaced as a unit. For example, if the Cobra R 351 heads flowed better than the regular 302 units, and they would bolt to a 302 you COULD NOT legally put them onto your 302.

It is also my understaning that it has to be a car that sold more than 50 cars in the US
Therefore also rendering a ZC Illegal for it was only sold in Japan
This is why the Honda Challenge is great

 

Agreed.

If you want more torque, screw the LS...you might as well get the B20Z unless you're planning on turboing an engine with stock internals (in which case it might be better to get the B18B).

 

and 140 whp turbocharged Civic's!

aj, (I'm retarded)