1997 Integra GS, got a brand new master cylinder and bench bled it, checked for leaks, absolutely none, no air in the lines anymore, all the bleeder valves work, followed the order to a T everytime, and the brake pedal still has no pressure whatsoever when the car is on. What could be the problem, and I'll consider anything, no matter how crazy it could be, just please give me some ideas on why these darn brakes refuse to work anymore.

 

Just to clarify.

When the car is off the brake pedal is firm. You can pump the pedal and it will be hard in less than 5 pumps?

When the car is on the brake pedal sinks. Pedal is firm, you turn on the car and it sinks to the floor.

 

I don't know about less than 5 pumps, but when the car is off after a certain amount it most certainly gets very firm, but as soon as the car is on it goes right to the floor.

 

You may want to check that out. On my car it is rock hard by the third pump.

If it takes a while to build up pressure you probably have air in the lines still.

 

Anyone have any ideas at all? This really needs to be fixed so the car can like, stop after it starts going and junk.

 

You got massive air in your lines man that is your problem.

Bleed your brakes with a friend and you will be fine. Just did a brake job like this this weekend. The line was filled with air and even after changing the MC and the BB the pedal went all the way down, after a good bleed it was all good.

With a buddy, open up the RR caliper and pump till you see solid fluid then close and ask to pump pump pump(3-4 times) and hold the pedal down with a bit of force, then open up the bleeder and close. Repeat till you see solid fluid coming out of the lines. Do this for all making sure you do the furthest from the MC first.

Oh yeah make sure you have the bleeder bottle attached.

 

I promise you guys I have bled it so many times I've probably gone through at least two whole bottles or brake fluid. There is absolutely nothing else it could be?

 

Let me ask you, how did you bled it?

Also when you bench bled the MC did it have any pressure?

 

Does your car have ABS by any chance? Have you bled the ABS unit?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX T-Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Let me ask you, how did you bled it?
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There is a little technique to it and it does matter.

How I go about it.
1)Have helper pump the pedal till pressure builds and then hold the pedal down.
2)Place tube over bleeder and have the other end of the tube submerged in brake fluid. (Starbucks frappichino bottles work pretty good, small and clear)
3)While my helper is holding down the pedal I will open and re-close the bleeder quickly.
4)After I have closed the bleeder repeat #1 and #3. Repeat until you are satisfied and move to the next wheel.

I usually do each wheel twice. (two laps around the car) BR, BL, FR, FL, BR, BL, FR, FL. Just to be through.

It is important to have your bleeder line submerged in brake fluid. It makes it easier to see bubbles, dirty fluid, and if your helper lifts the pedal while the bleeder is open it will siphon fluid back into the system instead of air.

 

u bleed sequence rr, lf,lr,rf. have them depress the brakes half way. then open the screw. do it 3-4 times. do it in full sequence. make sure the brake fluid is always there and you dont run low and put air into the system.

if you bench bled it wrong you mite have a pressure check valve issue. possibly damaged the secondary cups in master. that will basically sink the pedal when its on.

ill have to go through my stuff to figure it out for you man pm me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94VTEC2TONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u bleed sequence rr, lf,lr,rf. have them depress the brakes half way. then open the screw. do it 3-4 times. do it in full sequence. make sure the brake fluid is always there and you dont run low and put air into the system.

if you bench bled it wrong you mite have a pressure check valve issue. possibly damaged the secondary cups in master. that will basically sink the pedal when its on.

ill have to go through my stuff to figure it out for you man pm me</TD></TR></TABLE>

The bleeding sequence is the furthest first so it would be RR(Rear Right), RL(Rear Left), FR(Front Right), then FL(Front Left).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX T-Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The bleeding sequence is the furthest first so it would be RR(Rear Right), RL(Rear Left), FR(Front Right), then FL(Front Left).
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Wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94VTEC2TONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u bleed sequence rr, lf,lr,rf</TD></TR></TABLE>
OP, you've got mad air in there. So, the pedal gets hard with the car off. If you hold it down when you start it, does the pedal dive when you fire it up? Or does it stay where you're holding it?

Did you make sure to bleed the lines at the master first?

 

So many people do it differently.....All I know is that my brakes are perfect and I just redid my brakes after doing a brake upgrade.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94VTEC2TONE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u bleed sequence rr, lf,lr,rf. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That is the correct sequence stated in the helms dealer service manual.

The one I posted is "wrong" but it still gets the job done well without having to climb out from under the car and back under multiple times.

 

Ok, so, my car does indeed have ABS, I did bench bleed the master cylinder correctly, I did bleed the brakes in the proper order, though more so then hold the brakes half way I had my helper pump them to get a lot of bubbles out. I always made sure the MC was pretty much filled so I didn't run it dry and get more air in there, I just have a hard time believeing that I really have that much air in there. But I will give it another shot and report back with my results. Thank you guys for your input.

 

there is a bleed sequence for a reason. because you got lucky dont mean thats the way the brakes should be bled. there is a reason for bleeding them that way. if the pedal is sinkin to the floor its possibly not air in the system but a bad master cylinder