When this first started I thought it would be the normal distributor issues, but I don't think so anymore based on what I've been noticing when it happens, had it happen tonight, long enough to make the following observations.

So the car shut down for awhile today, long enough to walk 1/2 mile home and drive back with the truck to tow the bitch, but it started up fine when I got to where I left the car.

Basically it acts as if the ignition has never been turned to the ON position. No dash lights at all, no security light, no CEL, no oil light, etc, nothing, just a completely dark cluster when the key is in ON, hit the start position and it cranks but that's it since the fuel pump, etc is never activated (since it doesn't realize it's in the ON position I assume). I don't see how the distributor could be causing that issue.. so maybe IGN switch? main relay? ECU? Immobilizer?

The car does have an older clifford alarm, which armed/disarmed fine during this troubleshooting, the one thing I didn't try was to arm/disarm the car and then try to start it, I armed the alarm, walked home, then disarmed when I got back. Next time this happens I'll try to immediately arm/disarm the alarm to see if the alarm is causing an issue.

Car is otherwise stock electrically, well except for a small stereo, but I can't see that being the problem.... car has a few other mods but nothing electronic...

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

Dave,

Based on your description that it acts like it's not even in the "On" position I would immediately check for loose connections in/around the ignition switch. The ECU won't affect the car going to the "On" position, neither will anything engine related.

My assumptions veer toward the alarm. I'm guessing it was installed as an ignition switch kill and probably using some type of "crimp on" connectors. On a slightly different note, my ITR had a Clifford alarm on it when I bought it and it went completely haywire on me thus forcing it's removal from the car.

Or it could be the slow but untimely demise of the main relay, but I'm always tempted to second guess any diagnosis that involves it.

 

ghost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dave,

Based on your description that it acts like it's not even in the "On" position I would immediately check for loose connections in/around the ignition switch. The ECU won't affect the car going to the "On" position, neither will anything engine related.

My assumptions veer toward the alarm. I'm guessing it was installed as an ignition switch kill and probably using some type of "crimp on" connectors. On a slightly different note, my ITR had a Clifford alarm on it when I bought it and it went completely haywire on me thus forcing it's removal from the car.

Or it could be the slow but untimely demise of the main relay, but I'm always tempted to second guess any diagnosis that involves it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the reply man.

I'll pull the steering column and lower dash panels off it asap to check it. I found the wire they connected to the distributor was just twisted around the stripped factory wire then electrical taped

Def. going to install any future alarms myself.

 

Shutdown on the way to work today. Armed/disarmed the alarm, didn't work, so I enjoyed listening to local talk radio for a few minutes, tried again and she started right up and made it to work

So, my commute may be getting longer every day lol

going to strip the bitch and start looking for obvious stuff this weekend, might "remove" (as in label/disconnect the wiring - but leave it physically in place for now) the alarm to eliminate it.

And for what it's worth, when the car shutdown, the security light was flashing, but would not light back up after I turned the key to off, then back to ON, the dash remained 100% dark, so it's almost as if the security/immobilizer system may be detecting something? Not sure, that's just an oddity I noticed today.

 

hey man, im having the same problems you are. i just went out and bought a new fuel pump thinking that was the problem, but i guess its not. it died twice on me after putting the new one in.
so im guessing it could be my main relay..
did you figure yours out???

 

Sounds like the electrical portion of the igntion switch. The contacts sometimes get corroded inside and cause this issue.
Whats the immob. green key light doing when you crank after it dies??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greasemonkey75 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like the electrical portion of the igntion switch. The contacts sometimes get corroded inside and cause this issue.
Whats the immob. green key light doing when you crank after it dies??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

When it first shuts down the security light (green key light) flashes, but that's normal when you "shut off" the car, when I move the key back to "ON" nothing lights, not the green key, nothing at all. I can manually reproduce what it looks like when it shuts down, just turn the key to the I position when driving It literally acts like you turn the car off, but when turning the key back to ON it just doesn't register it. I'm going to drive around this weekend with a multimeter to measure voltage coming off the lock cylinder before and during this issue to eliminate the cylinder itself (or determine it's the cause I guess), then will just keep troubleshooting from there...

 

OK pretty sure I've traced the problem. It is the alarm.

When all is working fine, the following is true:
I have +12v on the IGN switch, +12V on the crimp connector between the Position II IGN (ON) wire (Black/yellow) with the Alarm IGN ON input (on both sides of the connector) and +12V on the crimp connector between the Alarm IGN ON output and the car's Black/yellow wire that's normally connected directly to the IGN Sw.

When the car stops running and won't see the Position II IGN (On), I have +12V at the IGN Black/Yellow wire, both sides of the crimp connector going from the IGN sw to the Alarm IGN ON input wire, but .01-.02 volts on the Alarm IGN ON output wire, so something in the alarm seems to be killing power.

I removed the alarm and I get the same results as when the car isn't happy, so it makes some sense there. For testing and to confirm my thoughts, I used some 14ga wire to make some 2" jumpers that I connecting to the Alarm's power harness to connect the IGN ON and START wires (basically bypassing the alarm's brain). So far, all is well.... going to cut the alarm's power wires and solder them together to make a.. well.. less fire hazard bypass until I completely gut everything and do a stealth install of a new alarm.

 

maybe you can completly remove the alarm and see if the problem persist... if not pay someone and get it professionally installed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vietnamezerice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe you can completly remove the alarm and see if the problem persist... if not pay someone and get it professionally installed </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is "professionally" installed, a monkey could have installed it better though.

Either way, it seems fine now, the alarm is still installed, just the blackjax portion of the system is bypassed.