Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
Ive got an 07 EX sedan and we've had brake issues for the past several months. It all started with squeeling from the front brakes, it is now squeeling and rumbling/grinding feel to it when the brakes are hot after a steep hill, etc. There is one really steep hill we go down and the car rumbles/vibrates like crazy. Its not wheel shake, its def. a brake issue. Im just wondering because I checked out the pads and the right side front have quite a bit of pad left, but the left side could stand to be changed.
A: What would cause such a drastic uneven wear pattern?
B: What could be the cause of the rumbling/vibration?
C: I havent hit the chirper yet, and the brakes have been noisy for a while now. Ive always had great things to say about OEM pads, but these seem to have worn really bad(24k miles).
We dont drive hard on the car, just the grocery getter. Im going to do the front pads regardless but Im just trying to figure out if there is something im missing that needs to be addressed at this brake change.
CLIFFS:
Uneven brake wear @ 24k Miles:
Going to replace pads anyways, just want to know if there are reasons for the uneven wear and brake noise that need to be looked at by a "professional".
A: What would cause such a drastic uneven wear pattern?
B: What could be the cause of the rumbling/vibration?
C: I havent hit the chirper yet, and the brakes have been noisy for a while now. Ive always had great things to say about OEM pads, but these seem to have worn really bad(24k miles).
We dont drive hard on the car, just the grocery getter. Im going to do the front pads regardless but Im just trying to figure out if there is something im missing that needs to be addressed at this brake change.
CLIFFS:
Uneven brake wear @ 24k Miles:
Going to replace pads anyways, just want to know if there are reasons for the uneven wear and brake noise that need to be looked at by a "professional".
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From: Los Angeles/Orange County, CA, USA
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (lightsleeper)
someone else had this problem with their car, don't know if anyone ever figured out why.
my brake pads started squealing at 22k and i replaced them at 25. i probably had another 2-3k left on the pads but i figured i had everything undone, might as well replace them.
my brake pads started squealing at 22k and i replaced them at 25. i probably had another 2-3k left on the pads but i figured i had everything undone, might as well replace them.
Road House
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,818
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From: Home of Champions. The Boston Massachusetts.
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (pd0019)
Never try and brake while going over a pothole, (don't know why you would drive over a pothole in the first place) or any change in pavement. Your ABS will feel awful.
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (pd0019)
I talked to the service at my local dealer and apparently Honda sent out a notification of this problem with the newer gen civics...there were three causes for the uneven wear as stated by Honda:
1. Air in the brake lines
2. I forgot
3. Braking lightly, which causes partial braking from one side more than the other(my problem specifically).
1. Air in the brake lines
2. I forgot
3. Braking lightly, which causes partial braking from one side more than the other(my problem specifically).
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From: Los Angeles, CRX Heaven
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (lightsleeper)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lightsleeper »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I checked out the pads and the right side front have quite a bit of pad left, but the left side could stand to be changed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exact same situation with my '07 Si Sedan. After 32k miles of easy driving, the right pads had 5-10% more friction materiel while the outside pad on the left side was down to metal. Just the way these cars wear on their pads? Traction control grips the left front more? I have no complaints, the OEM brakes are fine for the street.
I kept waiting for the squealer to signal time for a pad change. Never heard it.
A set of front pads from the dealer cost $80. I did the change on my driveway in less time than it takes my wife to get ready to go out.
Scott
Exact same situation with my '07 Si Sedan. After 32k miles of easy driving, the right pads had 5-10% more friction materiel while the outside pad on the left side was down to metal. Just the way these cars wear on their pads? Traction control grips the left front more? I have no complaints, the OEM brakes are fine for the street.
I kept waiting for the squealer to signal time for a pad change. Never heard it.
A set of front pads from the dealer cost $80. I did the change on my driveway in less time than it takes my wife to get ready to go out.
Scott
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From: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (cbstd)
I assume when you say 'front right' you mean the passenger side and 'front left' means driver side?
The driver side pads could be wearing faster than the passenger side because most of the time, there is more weight on that side (from the driver) than the passenger side. The driver side front brakes have to grip harder to compensate for this.
The outer pad will wear faster than the inner pad because our calipers are floating calipers which move with respect to the disc. A piston on one side of the disc pushes the brake pad until it makes contact with the braking surface. It then pulls the caliper body with the other brake pad so that pressure is applied to both sides of the disc. One pad is touching the disc before the other every time causing a difference in wear.
After going to a track weekend, my front, driver side outside pad was down to the metal while the other front pads were only on the verge of being down to the metal. I almost had to replace the rotors, but fortunately one of my friends was able to sand/file them smooth.
The driver side pads could be wearing faster than the passenger side because most of the time, there is more weight on that side (from the driver) than the passenger side. The driver side front brakes have to grip harder to compensate for this.
The outer pad will wear faster than the inner pad because our calipers are floating calipers which move with respect to the disc. A piston on one side of the disc pushes the brake pad until it makes contact with the braking surface. It then pulls the caliper body with the other brake pad so that pressure is applied to both sides of the disc. One pad is touching the disc before the other every time causing a difference in wear.
After going to a track weekend, my front, driver side outside pad was down to the metal while the other front pads were only on the verge of being down to the metal. I almost had to replace the rotors, but fortunately one of my friends was able to sand/file them smooth.
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From: killafornia
maybe u guys had a close call and slammed on the brakes? creating a hotspots and warping the rotor
also riding the brakes down a hill heats up your rotor and can warp it if you come to a stop to let your brakes cool down. you should just drive slowly so the air will cool them down without warping them.
also riding the brakes down a hill heats up your rotor and can warp it if you come to a stop to let your brakes cool down. you should just drive slowly so the air will cool them down without warping them.
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From: Los Angeles, CRX Heaven
Re: (i-VTEC_DOHC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i-VTEC_DOHC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe u guys had a close call and slammed on the brakes? creating a hotspots and warping the rotor
also riding the brakes down a hill heats up your rotor and can warp it if you come to a stop to let your brakes cool down. you should just drive slowly so the air will cool them down without warping them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, no, no. There is no way you can over-heat a modern rotor enough to cause warping. Maybe back in the old days when rotors were as thin as a pizza pan, but not today.
Rotor warping is not caused by heat but rather by the use of air wrenches. If some moron in the shop uses an air wrench to reattach lug nuts, specially if he does not cross tighten the lug nuts, it can warp a rotor.
You MUST use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. It is a surprisingly small amount of torque (check your Service Manual) to hold lug nuts.
Scott
also riding the brakes down a hill heats up your rotor and can warp it if you come to a stop to let your brakes cool down. you should just drive slowly so the air will cool them down without warping them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, no, no. There is no way you can over-heat a modern rotor enough to cause warping. Maybe back in the old days when rotors were as thin as a pizza pan, but not today.
Rotor warping is not caused by heat but rather by the use of air wrenches. If some moron in the shop uses an air wrench to reattach lug nuts, specially if he does not cross tighten the lug nuts, it can warp a rotor.
You MUST use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. It is a surprisingly small amount of torque (check your Service Manual) to hold lug nuts.
Scott
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From: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: (cbstd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, no, no. There is no way you can over-heat a modern rotor enough to cause warping. Maybe back in the old days when rotors were as thin as a pizza pan, but not today.
Rotor warping is not caused by heat but rather by the use of air wrenches. If some moron in the shop uses an air wrench to reattach lug nuts, specially if he does not cross tighten the lug nuts, it can warp a rotor.
You MUST use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. It is a surprisingly small amount of torque (check your Service Manual) to hold lug nuts.
Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes you can warp a modern rotor, and yes it can be caused by heat.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wikipedia »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Warping is often caused by excessive heat. When the disc's friction area is at a substantially higher temperature than the inner portion (hat) the thermal expansion of the friction area is greater than the inner portion and warping occurs. This can be minimized by using "floating" rotors which decouple the friction area from the inner portion and allow thermal expansion to occur at different rates. Primary causes of overheating include undersized or overmachined brake discs, excessive braking (racing, descending hills/mountains), "riding" the brakes, or a "stuck" brake pad (pad touches disc at all times).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also, there are attachments for impact wrenches that will only allow you to tighten lugnuts to 80 ft/lbs. You don't have to use a torque wrench every time.
No, no, no. There is no way you can over-heat a modern rotor enough to cause warping. Maybe back in the old days when rotors were as thin as a pizza pan, but not today.
Rotor warping is not caused by heat but rather by the use of air wrenches. If some moron in the shop uses an air wrench to reattach lug nuts, specially if he does not cross tighten the lug nuts, it can warp a rotor.
You MUST use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. It is a surprisingly small amount of torque (check your Service Manual) to hold lug nuts.
Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes you can warp a modern rotor, and yes it can be caused by heat.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wikipedia »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Warping is often caused by excessive heat. When the disc's friction area is at a substantially higher temperature than the inner portion (hat) the thermal expansion of the friction area is greater than the inner portion and warping occurs. This can be minimized by using "floating" rotors which decouple the friction area from the inner portion and allow thermal expansion to occur at different rates. Primary causes of overheating include undersized or overmachined brake discs, excessive braking (racing, descending hills/mountains), "riding" the brakes, or a "stuck" brake pad (pad touches disc at all times).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also, there are attachments for impact wrenches that will only allow you to tighten lugnuts to 80 ft/lbs. You don't have to use a torque wrench every time.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Los Angeles, CRX Heaven
Re: (chiggin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chiggin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes you can warp a modern rotor, and yes it can be caused by heat....Also, there are attachments for impact wrenches that will only allow you to tighten lugnuts to 80 ft/lbs. You don't have to use a torque wrench every time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
chiggin,
You refer to Wikipedia as your source of information. While Wikipedia is an *OK* source of general information, is it hardly a definitive source of wisdom with little to no accountability.
Yes, you could heat your street rotors pretty damn hot. But if you are getting your street rotors that hot, warpage is the least of your issues. Street cars just do not get their rotors that hot, because no one but a lunatic or a moron would
drive like that on the street. Perhaps if you rode your brakes down a streep hill while towing a huge trailer you might get street rotors that hot... But you will get brake failure before you get warpage.
Racers know better than to park a car with race-track-hot rotors with the parking brake engaged. Yes, that will cause a hot spot that will throw a rotor out of round.
Heat alone will not warp a street car's rotor. But an overly enthusiastic moron trying to get his lug nuts TIGHT will screw up a perfectly good rotor.
Scott
chiggin,
You refer to Wikipedia as your source of information. While Wikipedia is an *OK* source of general information, is it hardly a definitive source of wisdom with little to no accountability.
Yes, you could heat your street rotors pretty damn hot. But if you are getting your street rotors that hot, warpage is the least of your issues. Street cars just do not get their rotors that hot, because no one but a lunatic or a moron would
drive like that on the street. Perhaps if you rode your brakes down a streep hill while towing a huge trailer you might get street rotors that hot... But you will get brake failure before you get warpage.
Racers know better than to park a car with race-track-hot rotors with the parking brake engaged. Yes, that will cause a hot spot that will throw a rotor out of round.
Heat alone will not warp a street car's rotor. But an overly enthusiastic moron trying to get his lug nuts TIGHT will screw up a perfectly good rotor.
Scott
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From: Dacula, GA, USA
Re: (chiggin) Overheating Rotors
Gentlemen:
I'm not sure the Honda rotors can be warped by heat with the OEM pads (I'm also not sure they can't!). I had my '06 EX out on Road Atlanta for PDX's several times and the brakes always went soft from fluid boiling before any damage to the pads or rotors. I now have an '07 Si set up specifically for the track and use Wilwood 600+ fluid, Hawk HSP pads, and slotted rotors to slow quickly from triple digits.
Lightsleeper - That having been said, I had a problem with uneven wear once and traced it to a sticking caliper. I removed the caliper, cleaned the support rods, and applied a liberal coat of anti-seize; the problem went away. I think I would look there to eliminate that as a possibility. The other possibility is a sticking balance valve (part of the ABS). Bleed the brakes in the correct order then do three or four "hot stops" from 40 MPH to 5 MPH (don't stop completely) then immediately check for radiant heat from both sides, they should be about the same.
Chiggin - We have an SCCA PDX at RA on the 9th of November, check it out at dlbracing.com and come on down and join us!
I'm not sure the Honda rotors can be warped by heat with the OEM pads (I'm also not sure they can't!). I had my '06 EX out on Road Atlanta for PDX's several times and the brakes always went soft from fluid boiling before any damage to the pads or rotors. I now have an '07 Si set up specifically for the track and use Wilwood 600+ fluid, Hawk HSP pads, and slotted rotors to slow quickly from triple digits.
Lightsleeper - That having been said, I had a problem with uneven wear once and traced it to a sticking caliper. I removed the caliper, cleaned the support rods, and applied a liberal coat of anti-seize; the problem went away. I think I would look there to eliminate that as a possibility. The other possibility is a sticking balance valve (part of the ABS). Bleed the brakes in the correct order then do three or four "hot stops" from 40 MPH to 5 MPH (don't stop completely) then immediately check for radiant heat from both sides, they should be about the same.
Chiggin - We have an SCCA PDX at RA on the 9th of November, check it out at dlbracing.com and come on down and join us!
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From: Maricopa County
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (chiggin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chiggin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I assume when you say 'front right' you mean the passenger side and 'front left' means driver side?
The driver side pads could be wearing faster than the passenger side because most of the time, there is more weight on that side (from the driver) than the passenger side. The driver side front brakes have to grip harder to compensate for this.
The outer pad will wear faster than the inner pad because our calipers are floating calipers which move with respect to the disc. A piston on one side of the </TD></TR></TABLE>
If this were true then why were the pads on the piston side down near the rivets when we changes pads on me and my brothers Si but the outside pads had nearly 1/3 left?
Additionally to those who are doing their own brakes, what are you doing to resurface the rotors? Having them resurfaced off the car won't give you an uneven surface. You need to have the rotors turned with a brak lathe ON the car, unless you are using NEW rotors.
The driver side pads could be wearing faster than the passenger side because most of the time, there is more weight on that side (from the driver) than the passenger side. The driver side front brakes have to grip harder to compensate for this.
The outer pad will wear faster than the inner pad because our calipers are floating calipers which move with respect to the disc. A piston on one side of the </TD></TR></TABLE>
If this were true then why were the pads on the piston side down near the rivets when we changes pads on me and my brothers Si but the outside pads had nearly 1/3 left?
Additionally to those who are doing their own brakes, what are you doing to resurface the rotors? Having them resurfaced off the car won't give you an uneven surface. You need to have the rotors turned with a brak lathe ON the car, unless you are using NEW rotors.
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From: Greenville, SC, USA
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (Kidnkorner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If this were true then why were the pads on the piston side down near the rivets when we changes pads on me and my brothers Si but the outside pads had nearly 1/3 left?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Whether the inner or outer pad is more worn, the reason for the uneven pad wear is the same. I think it is a little weird that your inner pad was more worn than your outer and mine was the opposite.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dracomeister »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chiggin - We have an SCCA PDX at RA on the 9th of November, check it out at dlbracing.com and come on down and join us!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I won't be able to make it that weekend, but I will be driving HPDE at RA Dec 5-7 with NASA-SE. I definitely need to change out my brake fluid for some high temp stuff before then.
If this were true then why were the pads on the piston side down near the rivets when we changes pads on me and my brothers Si but the outside pads had nearly 1/3 left?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Whether the inner or outer pad is more worn, the reason for the uneven pad wear is the same. I think it is a little weird that your inner pad was more worn than your outer and mine was the opposite.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dracomeister »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chiggin - We have an SCCA PDX at RA on the 9th of November, check it out at dlbracing.com and come on down and join us!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I won't be able to make it that weekend, but I will be driving HPDE at RA Dec 5-7 with NASA-SE. I definitely need to change out my brake fluid for some high temp stuff before then.
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Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
I have an '07 Civic LX with just over 19000 miles and was getting a scraping sound. Brought to a place where I have repairs done adn they found uneven brake wear on the front brakes. What was a little weird is that the outside pad has at least 30% left but the inner pad is gone and the "warning tab" is exposed adn that is causing the scaping sound. The right pad is fine and the inside pad is just short of doing the same as the left. I know nrakes wear out but this is a bit excessive and will be talking to my Honda dealer to see if they ae willing to do anything for me. Any thoughts on this? How do I plead my case....
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From: Funfax
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (chiggin)
I think it's important because this is a very informative thread, and is the kind of thread that could cause someone to go out and take a definitive maintenance/repair action based on the information in here.
Did you mean to say "Having them resurfaced off the car won't give you an even surface"? The other statements in your post would cause me to believe that is actually what you meant to say.
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Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
Recommendations on some decent Break pad's for everyday driving? Tried Autozone/O'reilly's ceramics & organic, but not satisfied with performance/longevity. Looking for best of both worlds, at a bargain price.
Found Raybestos ATD537C on Amazon for $41. Has anyone had any luck with these?
Found Raybestos ATD537C on Amazon for $41. Has anyone had any luck with these?
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Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan (lightsleeper)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lightsleeper »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I checked out the pads and the right side front have quite a bit of pad left, but the left side could stand to be changed. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exact same situation with my '07 Si Sedan. After 32k miles of easy driving, the right pads had 5-10% more friction materiel while the outside pad on the left side was down to metal. Just the way these cars wear on their pads? Traction control grips the left front more? I have no complaints, the OEM brakes are fine for the street.
Exact same situation with my '07 Si Sedan. After 32k miles of easy driving, the right pads had 5-10% more friction materiel while the outside pad on the left side was down to metal. Just the way these cars wear on their pads? Traction control grips the left front more? I have no complaints, the OEM brakes are fine for the street.
As for the rust, we live in Chicago and have parked the cars outside for four winters. So this is somewhat expected.
-Mark
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From: Ann Arbor MI
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
I had a similar issue with my rear rotors in the 07 Si. The rear rotors were becoming extremely hot under normal conditions, to the point where even the wheel was too hot to touch. I jacked up the rear end and found that the wheels were barley turning when spun freely.
To solve the problem, I backed the parking brake adjuster way down. I also got new pad clips and installed them. The pads I was using were not sliding freely even with the new clips, so I filed down about half a millimeter from the top and bottom of the pads on each side. That, coupled with some new silicone lube have them moving freely like new. I also cleaned and re lubed the sliding pins.
Now there is almost no residual fricton when I release the parking brake or after normal braking.
To solve the problem, I backed the parking brake adjuster way down. I also got new pad clips and installed them. The pads I was using were not sliding freely even with the new clips, so I filed down about half a millimeter from the top and bottom of the pads on each side. That, coupled with some new silicone lube have them moving freely like new. I also cleaned and re lubed the sliding pins.
Now there is almost no residual fricton when I release the parking brake or after normal braking.
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From: Louisville
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
Recommendations on some decent Break pad's for everyday driving? Tried Autozone/O'reilly's ceramics & organic, but not satisfied with performance/longevity. Looking for best of both worlds, at a bargain price.
Found Raybestos ATD537C on Amazon for $41. Has anyone had any luck with these?
Found Raybestos ATD537C on Amazon for $41. Has anyone had any luck with these?
Using that combo, I can usually make it through a weekend at the track and can safely drive home on them too, although I always have an extra set in case. I dont think ive ever had a set that didnt have some type of track or autocross on them, so I really cant give any info on how long they would last as just a daily driver
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From: Panama City, FL
Re: Uneven Brake Pad Wear on 07 Sedan
i'm sorry in advanced i can't even finsh reading this thread the first couple post caused my re re light to go off the inner pad on hondas wear faster and hondas knows this and has a fix for it the rear pads also wear faster then the fronts due to light braking the rear pads engage first to try to keep the nose from dipping then the inner pads wear faster then the outer due to the inner pad not pulling off the rotor if cheapass people would just take their car to the dealership they would get this issue fixed theres a u shaped spring that goes in the pads to help seperate them and you reverse the pins, pull them out clean relube and swich the holes they go in will fix your issue
again i'm sorry for being an ******* but i've already had a long week at work with stupid customers and i see stuff like this.......it's like hybrids have a software update if yoru not a cheapass and you let the dealer do your work you'll find out theres an update for the software that takes 20 mins tops and your in and out and yoru fine if you don't do this then your ima battery will corriod and you'll have to change it so overall it will save you money to do to the dealership
again i'm sorry for being an ******* but i've already had a long week at work with stupid customers and i see stuff like this.......it's like hybrids have a software update if yoru not a cheapass and you let the dealer do your work you'll find out theres an update for the software that takes 20 mins tops and your in and out and yoru fine if you don't do this then your ima battery will corriod and you'll have to change it so overall it will save you money to do to the dealership
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