I had my Ultra Safeguard Ver. 2 installed about 5 years back when I upgraded my JRSC to 8psi. I didn't have the restrictor installed in the inlet hose to my FMU when they dyno-tuned everything; so everything was tuned as best as possible with very rich pressure settings.

I've since reinstalled the restrictor valve, was able to properly dial down my fp settings, but have trouble understanding how to use all the settings on the Safeguard. I've already done archived searches everywhere so I know all about the individual features: 20 or 10 degree control range; Retard All or Individaul; Programmed RPM/Vacuum controlled retard; Boost Start point; Boost Retard rate (0 to 2 degrees); MAP Limiter with adjustment to TP signal. I know what these controls do individaully, up to a certain point, but don't fully understand enough to set everything up collectively to eliminate tip-in at the vacuum/boost transition point.

With the restrictor in, fuel pressures are not only 'in the ballpark', they're pretty much on point (within 1psi +/- corrections). I just need help understanding how to properly set the Safeguard.

Here are the stats (as much as I can think of right now):

JRSC 8psi pulley (10 psi at the gauge)
RC 310's
26psi (34psi static) @ idle
68psi (38psi static) WOT
Stock timing
Around 3:1 rise rate

Current J&S setup:

10 degree retard range (Switch 1 down)
Retard all cylinders (Switch 2 up)
Sensitivity **** turned mid-point (can't tell if it's picking up noise or it's tip-in)
RPM retard @ 6 degrees max. (Controlled by RPM or vacuum between 2500 - 5000 rpms)...This is the one I have the most trouble understanding!
MAP Limiter set at the stock MAP signal (just where the 'Adjust' LED lights up)...
function supposed to help WOT by limiting TPS signal(?), but am I suppose to
turn clockwise or CCW?
Boost Retard set at 1.25 degree per psi. w/ Boost Retard Start Point @ 5 psi.

Currently still getting detonation (or is it noise?) just after 0 vacuum as well as around 5000 rpms under load (boost)...

That's all I can think of...any insights? TIA!!

A-dub

Modified by A-dub5513 at 10:53 PM 9/26/2008


Modified by A-dub5513 at 10:54 PM 9/26/2008

 

Get rid of that outdated technology, upgrade your injectors to rc 440cc injectors, relocate your map sensor to read boost on the jrsc & tune the car on hondata, ectune, neptune etc...

 

Call me sentimental, but researching the parts and learning how they all work over the years was both pleasure and pain. I just don't have the time and energy (not to mention, the money) to start it all over again.

I know that Hondata works, but I'm very close workin' with what I got and have decided to stick it through.

A-dub

 

Well, I spent all week just doing searches as to how our MAP sensors, open/closed loop operations, and the Safeguard's mid-range retard functions work. Think I absorbed (more or less) most of it. Very edu-ma-cational!

Since my last post, I was seeing some detting at WOT, so I raised peak fuel from 36 to 38 psi. I also had the MAP signal 'Adjust' **** on the J&S turned back to stock ECU set point (just where the 'Adjust' LED is lit). I used to have it at almost full CW thinking this **** was for fine tuning the seperate Boost Rate **** (0 degrees to 2 degrees per psi).

Did a WOT run on the freeway and...all I gotta say is, man, the last time I had a decent WOT was 5-6 years ago!!! Although it put a large grin on my face, I still felt that my stock 6psi days at its peak tune after dyno, pulled more aggressively. Things blurred in a hurry back then!

Anyway, it definetely feels like it's timing being pulled back. Like I stated above, I'm down to "only" 1 or 2 LED's from knock retard. And I'm sure the MAP Limiter function (think of it as an O2 clamp) is the first thing to adjust. Only I'm not sure whether to turn it a bit CCW, keeping it in "clamped" mode and lowering the output signal to the ECU a little more, thus setting the signal point sooner(?). Or turn it a bit CW resetting a new set point.

What I do know is that this is a 'closed-loop/open-loop' related issue and function. But I can also tell you that I still don't fully understand how to work this function in relationship to those two conditions. Anyone care to spread some wisdom?

A-dub

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A-dub5513 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Call me sentimental, but researching the parts and learning how they all work over the years was both pleasure and pain. I just don't have the time and energy (not to mention, the money) to start it all over again.

I know that Hondata works, but I'm very close workin' with what I got and have decided to stick it through.

A-dub

</TD></TR></TABLE>

why did you even ask what the best way to set the car up in the first post if you are not going to listen?

All of the oldschool stuff you have really has no place in todays Honda tuning scene.l

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get rid of that outdated technology, upgrade your injectors to rc 440cc injectors, relocate your map sensor to read boost on the jrsc & tune the car on hondata, ectune, neptune etc... </TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the best advice you are going to get.

 

Whoa, slow your roll there, Tomdata. What's with the aggression?! According to you, I "asked what the best way to set the car up in the first post". Going over my post to be sure, I made no such remark, either specifically or otherwise.

What I did do, specifically, was ask for help from those who might know, have had one, or still do how to properly use my J&S unit. I thought my intentions were clear based on the contents of my posts as well as the thread title...

Thanks for your input, though.

A-dub

 

Hey everyone, I'm stil tryin' to fully understand 'open-loop' and 'closed-loop' conditions. I've been reading up on all kinds of archived posts; on all kinds of cars about electronic O2 clamps, but still can't figure out if I'm supposed to raise or lower the output signal between the "clamp" (J&S Ultra v.2) back out to ECU.

From what I've read, I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to lower the ouput voltage, thus lowering the "stock set point" before the ECU goes into open-loop (where it pulls fuel and lean out...I think). But lowering the set point too much with the existing fuel pressure settings will create a "slimmer" closed-loop range, creating richer fuel conditions in that range (vacuum to 0psi). Does that sound about right?

On another note, maybe because I have a low post count so I may seem like a noob, but make no mistake, I've been in the "scene" for quite some time. I just have a better understanding with certain aspects of engine management tuning (fuel) than I do others (electronics).

Now, being as this is a Honda/Acura community, consisting of very highly knowledgable members (not gonna take a cheap shot 'n name-drop), I could have a few answers clarified. So if no one has an answer to my questions, or do but don't want to bother, I could live with that. But being told that I don't have a reason or place in this community because I'm not using a setup that's as technologically advanced as what's available today is just, with all due respect, ignorant. The mods used today are all just refined versions of past technology, wouldn't everyone agree? The basic principals of how to properly tune a boosted engine still remain the same...

Apologies to all for the vent, cheers!

A-dub

 

closed loop = ECU is using primary o2 sensor to aid in fueling
open loop = ECU is NOT usiong primary o2 sensor to aid in fueling

get a better engine management. So far everyone that has posted in this thread is a tuner. Trust us when we say that there is no headache in getting tuned on something better.

higher 02 voltage = leaner
lower 02 voltage = richer

 

To the OP. Sorry if my last post sounded like an attack. It wasn't. This is just a trend that seems to have been starting and picking up speed lately. There are lots of questions about how to revive old "technology" that people either have laying around from previous projects or got for "dirt cheap". The honest truth is that for a few hundred bucks you could get a chipped OBD1 ecu, have the car tuned with a wide variety of OBD1 rom editors and be done with it. The time and effort you will spend messing with a J&S and an FMU added to the high risk of failure with either of those systems just doesn't make sense anymore.

I will admit that a few years ago the J&S systems were gods gift to turbo cars and it was the best way to go for timing control. Therefore they do work. That old Walkman you have in the garage would still work too if you dusted it off and stuck a tape in it. But why use a Walkman when you can go out and get an ipod for $100? Make sense?