My GSR was recently rebuilt was running fine, until the oil light started to take a very long time to go off then i start the car. My friend told me that it may be my oil pump goin back. So i bought a Brand new Type-R pump and installed, change all the bearings once again.

Did all of that last night, put the engine back in the car started it, turned the key to build oil pressure, and the light took a whil to go off. it looked at the oil pressure gauge and it was reading 35-40 psi and when i rev the motor it wouldnt increase.

so i left the car by friend who is a mechanic when he went and check the car he started it and the oil light once again took for ever to go off.

I really would like to know what else would cause my engine to have low oil pressure readings, and cause these problems.

Almost everything in the motor has been change ( ordered new in the rebuild) . it doesnt smoke not overheat.

Any suggestions please.

 

I also have a 94 B18C with standerd ACL bearings and it does the same thing

Somtimes its like 2-3 seconds before i goes off( i canvinced myself that its normal but when im cruising i have a 80-90 psi with stock oil pump )

 

my pressure drop at times when drive..so i know it cant be normal in my case

 

you say the engine was recently re-built? what parts were replaced? who built the engine?

you may have to pull the head off for inspection. it almost sounds like you forgot the oil control orfice in the center of the block. also check to make sure that you did not forget the dowel pin and seal under the #3 cam rail on the head.

if you have all new bearings and new oil pump then there must be a separate issue unless your bearing clearances are extremely loose.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you say the engine was recently re-built? what parts were replaced? who built the engine?

you may have to pull the head off for inspection. it almost sounds like you forgot the oil control orfice in the center of the block. also check to make sure that you did not forget the dowel pin and seal under the #3 cam rail on the head.

if you have all new bearings and new oil pump then there must be a separate issue unless your bearing clearances are extremely loose.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeh the motor was rebuilt it was rebuilt by me (it is not the first motor i built):-
replaced were :-

All seals and gaskets.
Cams and valve train ( from stock to Buddy Club Spec 4)
All bearings in the Block.
P30 pistons, stock rods.
Intake manifold.
Header.

I never took out the orfice in the block, so i dont think it would go missing
I am not sure i know what dowel pin u mean.

When it was rebuilt it drove fine for a few weeks , then all of a sudden the oil light came on and the oil pressure problem came up. so i thought it was the pump so i bought a new type R pump and bearings and replaced everything.
Cranked the car for oil pressure, the oil light took for ever to go off, but it did, how ever the oil pressure gauge didnt move. we pulled everything again last night and looked at the brand new bearings i put on and one was scored (#4 con rod).

Do those dowel pins, orfices etc carry o-rings or seals that may have gone bad and screwing me up.

 

Sounds like you did not get the big end of the rods re-done.

 

U guys will bash me for this but the machine shops here refuse to machine the big ends of the rod. i tell them i want them clean up. checked for roundness and they tell me they dont do anything to rods

 

I've never had a shop refuse to do the rods. I'd look for a new shop even if you have to travel a bit.

 

install a manual gauge 0 to 100 psi and check pressure, you may have bad oil pressure sansor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6madness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">build oil pressure, and the light took a whil to go off. it looked at the oil pressure gauge and it was reading 35-40 psi and when i rev the motor it wouldnt increase.

Any suggestions please.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the light takes a while to go out after shut down, then that tends to suggest nice tight bearing clearances that don't allow the pressure to escape from the bearings too quickly. Bigger clearances (as with worn bearings) and the pressure will drop almost immediately.

I'd expect higher peak pressure. I wonder if the problem might be associated with the pressure relief valve 'popping off' too soon?

 

the light takes a while to go out once i start the car, 30sec +
and once the car is started the pressure would increase really slowly then after it reaches it's max, 30-40psi (even from cold startup). it would start to drop.

what is the pressure relief valve? where can i find that ? what if it is "popping off" as you say.how can i fix it ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6madness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the light takes a while to go out once i start the car, 30sec +
and once the car is started the pressure would increase really slowly then after it reaches it's max, 30-40psi (even from cold startup). it would start to drop.

what is the pressure relief valve? where can i find that ? what if it is "popping off" as you say.how can i fix it ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, I shouldn't post when I really should be going to bed...

If the light takes a longish while to come ON after shut down then it's suggestive of close bearing tolerance (not "off" as I stated because it will aready be off with the engine running, you'd hope).

If the pressure takes a long time to build up then it sounds like a flow problem, maybe something is blocked, e.g the pick up screen??

The pressure relief vavle is a valve that prevents the oil pressure from becoming excessively high. It just dumps pressure (and oil back to the sump) over a certain predetermined level, and would typically be a simple spring loaded valve. I doubt this is your problem because if it was faulty (say a soft / broken spring) then all that would happen would be a low max psi, it shouldn't affect the speed with which the peressure rises to that point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The pressure relief vavle is a valve that prevents the oil pressure from becoming excessively high. It just dumps pressure (and oil back to the sump) over a certain predetermined level, and would typically be a simple spring loaded valve. I doubt this is your problem because if it was faulty (say a soft / broken spring) then all that would happen would be a low max psi, it shouldn't affect the speed with which the peressure rises to that point.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeh i guess that could be possible, however why would it happen to 2 pumps ( the original GSR the car had on, adn now the new Type-R that i bought). my max pressure is low. mainly below 40psi.

when i start the car, whether it is cold or even after driving the light would take like 30+secs to go off after start up. all my mains and con rod clearences are just a hair below 0.002in except one rod ( cylinder #1) which is around 0.0015 .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6madness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeh i guess that could be possible, however why would it happen to 2 pumps ( the original GSR the car had on, adn now the new Type-R that i bought). my max pressure is low. mainly below 40psi.

when i start the car, whether it is cold or even after driving the light would take like 30+secs to go off after start up. all my mains and con rod clearences are just a hair below 0.002in except one rod ( cylinder #1) which is around 0.0015 .
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The pressure reilef valve won't be in the pump (I wouldn't think, but I don't know Honda engines in that much intimate detail, though I've never heard of one incorporated into an oil pump).

If it wasn't that your pressure guage and idiot light are tending to both suggest a problem I'd be thinking it might be the guage or light sender unit.

Hmm, are both the light and guage senders (or the guage line if it's a mechanical guage) exposed to the oil pressure at the same source? Might there be a blockage just before where pressure is measured by the light and guage senders...?? It might be a goood idea to remove any adaptors and have a good look inside them, and maybe even briefly start the engine with the orifice open to see how strongly oil squirts out...

 

i'll try that. tomorrow i will pull down the motor and clean it out real good. So i hope that any blockages or anything be sorted.

I know the motor over all isnt getting any pressure due to the fact that i didnt have any VTEC.

would that #1 cylinder being tighter than the rest cause low oil pressure ?

 

Tighter would = higher pressure, looser = less pressure. The looser the bearing clearance the more easily / quickly pressure will escape from the oil galleries through the bearing clearance.

Of course the upper limiting factor is the pressure relief valve, which will most probably be located behind a large hex or allen head somewhere on the outside of the motor (quite possibly somewhere near the oil pump, but not necessarily). Once you locate it it shouldn't be difficult to remove (famous last words...). The spring will have a specified 'free length', if it's shorter than spec then it may be opening too soon..., but I doubt it's your problem.

Second of course, if the pump is not pumping adequately or the pressure is escaping excessively from some point, then the pressure relief valve probably won't ever be opening.


Modified by johnlear at 1:54 AM 10/1/2008

 

Check the pickup tube and make sure there isn't a small crack somewhere. That can cause it to suck air causing low pressure. When you shut the engine down, the oil in the pickup will drain back into the pan so when you start the engine it will take longer to build pressure because it has to suck it up the tube again. It can be a hairline crack where it bolts to the pump. It's like filling a straw and holding your finger on the end, pull it off to let air in and the fluid will run out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClassicConcepts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check the pickup tube and make sure there isn't a small crack somewhere.

It can be a hairline crack where it bolts to the pump. It's like filling a straw and holding your finger on the end, pull it off to let air in and the fluid will run out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Could be, fits the symptoms, and (assuming such a crack exists) if the crack gets worse you won't be drawing any oil at all...

 

Since he said he was going to pull the motor down it is easy to check. I had that happen on an old mustang years ago after I hit something with the pan. I didn't even notice a dent in the pan but something caused a crack in the tube right where the tube was welded to the pump flange. Constant vibration can cause it just as easily.

eg6madness - any update?

 

not yet. will let you guys kno soon....i did look at the pickup but it doesnt look damaged

 

Update:

1. Ok pull the entire engine down and started over. Cleaned the entire block and blew it out wit compressed air.

2. I took off the new oil pump and poured a little oil in it and turned it by have until it started to push the oil back out. believe it or not it took about 5 mins b4 any oil could come back out.

3. I got a oil pick up from a friend, and compared it to mine. On mine the it seemed as if my oil pan had gotten a lash and it was actually touching the pickup. there was a big round circle print out of the pickup in the oil pan to show where it was touching. And the hole in the pickup seemed to be almost touching the filter area inside.

ANALYSIS thus far:

After cleaning out the motor there seemed to be little metal fragments it the oil passages from old worn bearings and the lack of oil.
Since the oil pump took so long for it to push back out the oil i can assume that it wasnt primed correctly in the first place, and therefore was pushing air through the system .
Since the pickup was touching the pan and actually bent in i can assume that oil was having a hard time squeezing between the pan an dthe pickup, to actually get into the motor.
After fixing the pan and opeing up the pickup hole bigged i saw tons of tiny metal fragments, silicone from sealing gasket areas, and other pieces of junk. After opening it up i was able to grab a tiny allen wrench and hook out most of it clear it out.

believe me so much junk came out.

I havent started the car as yet. I am wwaiting until tomorrow. but i am more confident since i now have pan to pickup clearence, and a clean and clear pickup i hope my motor will actually pickup oil and put a rest to my insanity.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6madness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3. was actually touching the pickup. there was a big round circle print out of the pickup in the oil pan to show where it was touching. And the hole in the pickup seemed to be almost touching the filter area inside.

Since the pickup was touching the pan and actually bent in i can assume that oil was having a hard time squeezing between the pan an dthe pickup, to actually get into the motor.

After fixing the pan and opeing up the pickup hole bigged i saw tons of tiny metal fragments, silicone from sealing gasket areas, and other pieces of junk.
believe me so much junk came out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I said; "If the pressure takes a long time to build up then it sounds like a flow problem, maybe something is blocked, e.g the pick up screen??".

It's so gratifying to be right...

I hope not to much damage has been done, good luck.

PS I wouldn't let silicone anywhere near my engine, it makes 'snakes' that block things up. It's fine for gearboxes or anything that doesn't pump fluid through small passages.

 

Well my fingers are crossed, i am puttin the engine back in the car today and i am goin to try to start it. hopefully it builds pressure and maintains it.

will keep u updated.

 

well put the motor in and cranked it til the oil light went out. i must say it went "off" quicker than it ever did. It went out after one quick crank.

how ever the oil pressure gauge that i have in seems to be **** and not working.
I am goin to try to borrow one and see if the car actually has pressure .

I am not driving the car as yet tho.

btu just letting you know that it started and ran for a few mins, with no oil light coming on

once i get a gauge then i will test it again and let u kno

 

Drove it..... . so far so good. The oil light in the car gose out as it suppose to, like a second after starting the car. It drives fine, nop noises no rattles no anything so far . Thanks again guys , thanks Johnlear for sticking around and helping out.