Hi people,

Im looking to build a quick circuit car, my main question is does the K20 upset the weight balance of lets say an eg or dc2?

Id prefer to use a stock K20R with just breathing and tuning, whereas with the C6 ill need to do abit more work to achieve more power.

So whats your thoughts??

 

Doesn't the k weight less?

 

yes ,the swap is 25 lbs less than a B18 swap.
What type of driving will you be doing HPDE, Time Attack?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the k weight less?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe he is reffering to the placement of the K inside the chassis of a small double wishbone car upsetting the balance vs. the stock location of the B.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by get RIGHT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe he is reffering to the placement of the K inside the chassis of a small double wishbone car upsetting the balance vs. the stock location of the B.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point, I personally did not notice a difference in balance going from b18c to K20A. The biggest change was the speed being carried into the turns was much greater and I had to change set-up for that aspect. So essentially, yes it changes the balance.
I have seen some racers say the B18 had less understeer, but that is relative to the speed difference as I mentioned. Hope this helps

 

Jason (Back In Black) had complaints about the K20 swap disrupting the balance of the car with his H1/H2 car. The engine does sit farther forward than the B, so despite that 25lb weight difference there is a change in overall distribution.

 

Yeh thats exactly what I meant, where the engine sits. It seems alot more up front then the b-series which I would have thought would have a big difference?

The car will be used mainly for time attack.

 

If your goal is time attack, how competitive do you plan on being? If the answer is "not very" then disrupting the balance of the chassis doesn't really matter. Given that, you should do what you want.

If you ARE trying to be competitive, then consider the overall cost of a K-swap compared to building a B-series to a similar power level. Since it doesn't sound like you're planning on competing in Honda Challenge, you won't be restricted by the same bottom-end rules that really limit reliability.

Having said that, if you're really REALLY trying to be competitive, you're going to need whatever will provide you with the most reliable power, and a stock K-series most likely won't cut it. At that point, you're compromising a lot of things, and chassis balance might be one that you'll need to give up in the quest for ultimate power. Keep in mind that a turbo hanging off the front of a B will disrupt that balance too.

I'm guessing from your original post that Option 1 is where you're at.

If you want a "quick car" and aren't experienced with track stuff, just know the following:
-"Quick" cars cost more money to start (motor + speed goodies)
-"Quick" cars eat through non-motor parts more (brakes, axles, tires)
-"Quick" cars have a habit of hiding driver inability
-Learning how to drive a "slow" car will ultimately improve YOU more than any motor will

If you don't care about any of those things, have at it.

 

From you've said I think the sensible thing to do would be leave my C6 in the sir and concentrate more on the chassis. Maybe later drop the K20 in and see what the differences are.

 

The K20A's have been making ridiculous power stock(230-250whp), so I would recommend what Stinky did and drive with the B for a while until you are very comfortable with the limits of your car and ready to move on.
But when you build a B-series, the reliability aspect of trying to catch up to the K will possibly take away from seat time. So I would certainly say a stock K20a would be the way to go as a transition.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheMidasTouch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would recommend what Stinky did and drive with the B for a while </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to clarify, I'm still rocking a non-VTEC B20 in my own car. I've just driven and ridden in K20 cars, and have a few friends who track K20 cars I have enough fun with 165whp that I can't justify the $8-10K for a K-swap.

Also, the K20s stock (H1-stock anyway) are topping out around 220whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jason (Back In Black) had complaints about the K20 swap disrupting the balance of the car with his H1/H2 car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would have to agree. The car just doesn't go left to right, right to left as well.

However, 6th gear, WOT at VIR is really cool.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

However, 6th gear, WOT at VIR is really cool. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I am going to have to agree with that.

 

K20R in an R on R comps with a very good driver at VIR is really cool. Usually when I ride in other cars they feel slower (even though they're usually faster than mine) but GK's R was crazy to ride in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jason (Back In Black) had complaints about the K20 swap disrupting the balance of the car with his H1/H2 car. The engine does sit farther forward than the B, so despite that 25lb weight difference there is a change in overall distribution.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont feel that it upsets the car's overall distribution. If you use the right Hasport mounts its sits in a good location. Also many people dont corner balance their car so they really have no idea what the weight distribution they just guess.

It takes time and suspension tuning but they handle great. Further more Jason was using PIC's and they clearly are not made for racing in the H1 class so I wouldnt say that was a good indicator.

I will show everyone at the Nationals next week

 

I'm only going off what I hear from others who are more experienced/knowledgeable than me. Feel free to argue with him though, and John W too I guess

As for the PIC comment though, I was under the impression that most of the ECHC H1 guys were using PIC for the time Jason was in H1. There has undoubtedly been more overall H1 development nationally now, as well as a general "stepping up of the game." See Motons, more aero development, and so on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm only going off what I hear from others who are more experienced/knowledgeable than me. Feel free to argue with him though, and John W too I guess

As for the PIC comment though, I was under the impression that most of the ECHC H1 guys were using PIC for the time Jason was in H1. There has undoubtedly been more overall H1 development nationally now, as well as a general "stepping up of the game." See Motons, more aero development, and so on.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not trying to argue with anyone...

PIC was the shock of choice in ECHC in 2005/2006 many of the guys running them have stopped racing but some of us who did found that to be at the top you needed a double adjustable shock! I love the guys at PIC I have been a dealer for then for years but they just dont have a shock for this level.

I have moved to Moton's

 

Man, I wish I could afford Motons...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mlrmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not trying to argue with anyone...

PIC was the shock of choice in ECHC in 2005/2006 many of the guys running them have stopped racing but some of us who did found that to be at the top you needed a double adjustable shock! I love the guys at PIC I have been a dealer for then for years but they just dont have a shock for this level.

I have moved to Moton's </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, if you only knew for what "level" the series was originally intended.

Jason-an OG from before HC was born and thinks it's sad to see what a moneypot the series has become.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Back in Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL, if you only knew for what "level" the series was originally intended.

Jason-an OG from before HC was born and thinks it's sad to see what a moneypot the series has become.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like everthing competative the bar is raised and raised again its a natural eveolution. Take swimming in the oylmpics this year all the records were smashed and a new suit had alot to do with it. Oh an that guy Phelps

I for one am pleased with the HC direction. It gives guys who cant run pro FT or even PT a place to race with other guys who are most likely in the same boat. No one ever said racing was cheap

Do you want to be an average series or the pinnacle of Honda racing IMO.

MLR Motorsports FTW

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mlrmotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you want to be an average series or the pinnacle of Honda racing IMO.

MLR Motorsports FTW</TD></TR></TABLE>
if only the series had some support and/or honda cared that the series existed.

to the o.p.- k&gt;b

 

HC has grown a lot from when it started, but there is always H4 and H5 for guys who can't afford to be competitive in H1 and H2.

 

&lt;---compettitive in h2 in a street driven car

h4/ita and h5/itb guys will tell you it still aint cheap

 

Racing isn't cheap. Just doing a handful of DE's a year is pushing it for some.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if only the series had some support and/or honda cared that the series existed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
+1
I must say it makes me jealous to see Mazdapeed drivers program, only if Honda would try such a thing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Back in Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL, if you only knew for what "level" the series was originally intended.

Jason-an OG from before HC was born and thinks it's sad to see what a moneypot the series has become.</TD></TR></TABLE>




Modified by JW racing at 8:02 AM 9/9/2008