Looking to learn about motor wear.

The following motor was a 24k mile USDM ITR motor that experienced a potential low oil moment during a HPDE. There was a faint knock after coming off track. This is the first time I've ever looked at rods/journals so I'm looking for some help with what I'm seeing. I figure the whole thing is going to have to come apart but I removed the rod caps and took some pics.

Any constructive input appreciated.


Cyl 1
Sorry...no cap or bearing pics




Cyl 2




I take it this bearing isn't suppose to look like this?




Cyl 3



Is this normal bearing wear?



Take it this isn't normal wear?




Cyl 4




Regular wear?

 

I looked at the pics before I read your caption and yes this occured because of low oil.

Yes, I believe you will need to replace the entire rotating assembly (rods and crank).

This is might be good time to get a 89 mm crank and LS rods.

 

will micro polishing the crank work?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20beast83 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">will micro polishing the crank work?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

mAcro polishing, maybe good luck with the rebuild and keep us posted!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20beast83 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">will micro polishing the crank work?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO, no.

 

lmk i have 89mm crank and pr4 rods fo sale!! i'll also throw in used b20b pistons cause its sittin on da rods

 

Looking at the journals, is that considered significant amount of wear/damage? Ie. not even worth measuring?

 

why replace everything? the bearings didnt lose tension, the journals look fine(no gouges).

tear apart, mic crank and micro polish, resize rods, new bearings?

 

i think the pics are not clear enough to tell if the crank is worthless or not.
Can your fingernail catch any of the gouges on the crank?

Take it to a competant machine shop and ask them to look over it and micro polish if its worth it.

The only pic of the crank that scares me is this one. . . Looks like something got drug along the journal



This one is definitely not pretty but should be able to be polished depending upon how deep the scratches are . .

 

Thanks for the input guys! Any other input appreciated.
I know the pictures of the journals aren't great but it is all I have to show.


Question 1: Someone mentioned resizing the rods. I assume this means increasing the rod's BE I.D. to remove the damaged material. That correct?

Question 2: Will macro/micro polishing a crank (in general) remove enough material that it would significantly change the bearing clearance, assuming an undamaged rod? I know it has to be checked regardless!!!


Added Question

Question 3: If a rod needs to be resized. Can the rod journal O.D., bearing thickness, and desired clearance be added together to determine the correct resize?





Modified by RStoR at 11:26 AM 9/4/2008

 

I would also like to know what resizeing the rod means? I would asume theyre talking about the bearings?

GOODLUCK with the rebuild! How did the oil get low? Was there a leak?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LastGenEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would also like to know what resizeing the rod means? I would asume theyre talking about the bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Here is how resizing a rod was just explained to me


A machine shop will shave the following areas of the rod cap.

That will make the BE more ovalish in shape. The bore is then opened up again to a round dimension (I assume based on available bearing sizes).




<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LastGenEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How did the oil get low? Was there a leak?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It was 1/3rd of the way above the bottom dip stick hole while hot. I was doing a HPDE school and failed to check it after the previous session out. Lesson learned!


Modified by RStoR at 12:54 PM 9/4/2008

 

in some cases they will shave the cap top and then hone the big end to the correct size. in other cans they just hone the big end.

 

How much would such a machining procedure cost? Wouldn't it be worth it to just get another crank?

 

OP, it is easier and cheaper to replace the crank and rods than to try and fix that crank.

If you insist on repairing them then take the crank and rods to Castillo's. That is the only place I know of that can repair a crank correctly. Micropolishing will not work because the scratchs are below the journal coating. That coating is 5 thou thick.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OP, it is easier and cheaper to replace the crank and rods than to try and fix that crank.

If you insist on repairing them then take the crank and rods to Castillo's. That is the only place I know of that can repair a crank correctly. Micropolishing will not work because the scratchs are below the journal coating. That coating is 5 thou thick.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

how can you tell how bad the crank is by pics?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how can you tell how bad the crank is by pics?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The pics for cylinder number 2 show gouging deeper than coating on the journal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OP, it is easier and cheaper to replace the crank and rods than to try and fix that crank.

If you insist on repairing them then take the crank and rods to Castillo's. That is the only place I know of that can repair a crank correctly. Micropolishing will not work because the scratchs are below the journal coating. That coating is 5 thou thick.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


I have a spare ITR crank if that is needed.


A <U>VERY</U> reputable builder on this forum IM'd me the following after I asked him to check out the pics. I have removed his name because I'm not trying to create conflict in the thread, just provide information.

(2:04 PM 9/4/2008) (?????): Does not look that bad, I see no heat discoloration. Re-size the rods, polish the crank, bore and hone to next size piston.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RStoR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have a spare ITR crank if that is needed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would go with the spare crank get a new rod and bore and hone to the next size. If you want you could send the damaged crank out to get repaired and then you would have a spare crank.

It may sound like I'm being a ninny but I've played the let repair a spun crank game before and it wound up costing more than just getting a good crank and rods.

 

good-luck with the new build

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RStoR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


(2:04 PM 9/4/2008) (?????): Does not look that bad, I see no heat discoloration. Re-size the rods, polish the crank, bore and hone to next size piston.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm with him. But a LS crank and Rods would be nice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N20civicB18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm with him. But a LS crank and Rods would be nice </TD></TR></TABLE>

and why? if the engine is doing track event why sacrifice the extra stroke for the add weakness the weaker ls rod
'

 

He never said what type of track event, but probably cones or something so he might be better off with the 87mm stroke.
I built a Boosted Integra with 89mm stroke on cheap eagle rods and we tuned it right to 9500rpm's at 27lbs of boost at 654 whp and the setup has a good 15k on it now, The LS R/S ratio is fine with upgraded rods or rod bolts.
Let's not debate this, everyone has their own opinion and there are plenty of threads about it, I need bed anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N20civicB18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He never said what type of track event, but probably cones or something so he might be better off with the 87mm stroke. </TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RStoR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The following motor was a 24k mile USDM ITR motor that experienced a potential low oil moment during a HPDE. There was a faint knock after coming off track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

ha Okay, I don't know what HPDE is I guess i'm the idiot lol