ok im fixing to cut a mani for itb and i want to get some thoughts on runner length,and some thoughts on how to opitmize the fuel better without mounting the fuel rail and inj over the itbs.looking for good links that will help me out on this.i found a few on google but nuttin really useful.

many thanks to ghostaccord far helping me this far!!!

 

http://www.jenvey.com

Q&A

 

http://www.mne.psu.edu/me415/f....html

another good link

 

I think this one:

http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=466

And an intake runner hp and torque calculator:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

Good luck!

 

Here is some good reading that is ITB specific.

http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=484

 

great im going to start reading ASAP!!!

ill post some pics of the build tomroow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ponyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think this one:

And an intake runner hp and torque calculator:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>


thats the one im needing thanks!


Modified by zccr-xsi at 10:12 PM 9/3/2008

 

Kind of off topic but still relating to ITB's.

Really cool TV commercial promoting....... a production V8 with individual throttle bodies. Oh but ITB's are too hard to tune..... Whatever! I guess BMW thinks differently then all the nay sayers.

http://paultan.org/archives/20...acity/

And an image of the 8400RPM DOHC BMW M3 V8 Parts. ITB's are the highlighted parts.

 

ITB's are more difficult to tune versus a standard intake plenum/single throttle combination.

As an engine calibrator for an OEM, I can tell you it takes a group of 12 engineers roughly 2-8 months to get a base engine calibration.

Don't go thinking that because an OEM with a 10 million dollar team of engineers can tune a production engine with individual throttles, that [insert tuner] can tune [insert management] to run ITB's just as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92TypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't go thinking that because an OEM with a 10 million dollar team of engineers can tune a production engine with individual throttles, that [insert tuner] can tune [insert management] to run ITB's just as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Indeed, it's not impossible just very difficult.

BTW, didn't the e39 M5 incorporate ITBs?

 

I guess I should have worded my post differently. I'm not saying that they are easier to tune. I'm showing that once tuned they are not as unstable as a lot of people seem to think.

But once it's tuned it done right? You don't need to keep going back to that team of 12 to keep tuning like some people suggest will happen. Due to weather or elevation changes. If you get your car properly tuned in the first place there should be no need to retune all the time. Correct?

As for other production ITB vehicles. Yes there are more than a few just not a production model DOHC V8. Honda, Nissan, BMW & Toyota all have one or more ITB induction vehicles. I think BMW uses them the most though.


Modified by GhostAccord at 11:47 AM 9/5/2008

 

ok guys i wasnt saying or thinking its as easy as boosting,but having some sort of tuning knowhow is a big plus.and im doing this set-by step slowly so i dont miss anything or screw anything up.and before i go getting trashed for this comment im comparing the everyday person to engineers&lt;&lt;are tought and trained to build race cars so yea if it takes them some time to sit and tune and dail in a ITB set-up its sure in the hell wont be easy for anyone eles.ectune is going to help me do this so i got some faith!

but off hand those itb are nice looking how big are they??


Modified by zccr-xsi at 12:03 PM 9/5/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GhostAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But once it's tuned it done right? You don't need to keep going back to that team of 12 to keep tuning like some people suggest will happen. Due to weather or elevation changes. If you get your car properly tuned in the first place there should be no need to retune all the time. Correct? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Once the base calibration is finished, the fuel trim and ignition is controlled by models and reference tables, as well as sensor input. Closed loop operation compensates for all weather and environment conditions such as altitude, temperature, humidity...etc.

Most tuners use reference tables and base tunes only, and rely on what they have manipulated to run an engine with aftermarket parts. You can have a decent temperature compensation table made in eCtune, CROME...etc, but it doesn't cover the whole range of operation that vehicle may see.

The problem with ITB's is that they are much more sensative to small changes in environment, such as ambient pressure. Without tuning a reference table for each possible condition, which is impossible in one day (you can't drive in 104 degree weather at 5500 elevation and then wait an hour and drive in 15 degree weather below sea level), you can only approximate/interprolate values. Or as I like to call it, a 'guess tune'.

I've seen ITB's tuned very well. Approximations work for conditions in which most people may drive. The extremes make it difficult. Find a good tuner, and you should be satisfied.

 

[QUOTE=92TypeR]
The problem with ITB's is that they are much more sensative to small changes in environment, such as ambient pressure. Without tuning a reference table for each QUOTE]

yea i heard that also.

 

Tuning is everything!

ITBs in the right tuning "hands" can be a lovely experience. Injector spray pattern is extremely important as we have documented in our lab. On a 200hp engine, it could be as much as a 10whp difference between a common "3-hole spray" injector (many know what I am talking about) vs. a fine mist from a Kinsler prepped bosch set.

 

well it een a little while so i thought i would post some pics.tps done ready to go inj bung jb-welded im taping the vac port as we speak.still need to do little porting
before fitting the itb on the mani.what volt did u end up staying with when using the busa tps?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zccr-xsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what volt did u end up staying with when using the busa tps?</TD></TR></TABLE>

After I was done adjusting the throttle stops and the TPS. I ended up with my primary TPS reading 1.47v @ 0% throttle & 4.38v @ 100% throttle.

What readings were you getting?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zccr-xsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>

This looks familiar...

 

lol my reading were real close to you to start.

1.04 o%
4v 100%

then of course 5v power wire.sorry for the pink shrink wrap im going to slide a big tube of black wrap reshrink it then put some looming on it.it will look stock when im done

 

If you go WOT and let the throttles snap shut a few times do you get constant readings?

I was getting 1.13v & 4.03v from it at first. Then I bolted on my adjustable throttle stop and throttle cable bracket and it went to what I have now. But they are consistant no matter how much I snap them around.

I'm banking on the fact that some very smart people out there have done well with the programming behind the TPS voltage scaling in there software........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GhostAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you go WOT and let the throttles snap shut a few times do you get constant readings?

I was getting 1.13v & 4.03v from it at first. Then I bolted on my adjustable throttle stop and throttle cable bracket and it went to what I have now. But they are consistant no matter how much I snap them around.

I'm banking on the fact that some very smart people out there have done well with the programming behind the TPS voltage scaling in there software........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea it tried that and it shows the same voltage. what throttle brakect and throttle stop did u use? i been in pgmfi.org for few years and theres tons of very smart guys over there.thats where im getting my helo from.

 

Here's some pics of my set up...













Those pics are when i was first mocking them up there finished and work really good took them off until I get some tuning GAS prices suck...

Once i get some tuning I'll post pics of the finish JOB hope this helps in your build...

 

why u using the the busa inj?there smaller then the stock honda ones.u shold try grinding them stock inj bungs out to see if u can get stock inj to fit there.

 

I'm using the stock Busa bracket and stops with some minor bends and adjustments.

Nice looking setup MOE. What did you use to plug the stock injector bungs? In your pics they are wide open.

The busa injectors are 230cc's. That's still not what I would be recommending for any Honda engine over 1300cc's running ITBs.

 

damn where ever i seen them posted as 210cc must of had bad info.

 

What is the size of those ITBs at the butterfly?