Does anyone have some real world track experience/recommendations with a progress (or other) 22mm rear sway bar on a 2007-2008 Civic Si coupe or 4dr.? What other performance (not bling) suspension mods (other than adjustable coil over units) work best on a Civic Si 4dr. (rear lower tie bar, front lower tie bar, front lower H bar, front upper strut bar, etc.)? What size of rims & tires work best on the track with a Civic Si 4 dr. (16, 17 or 18 inch sizes)? My goal is the most track performance bang for the $$ without seriously degrading everyday street & highway driving. Thanks for the valuable assistance.


Modified by CivicRS at 8:17 PM 9/1/2008

 

Try the car on the track as is, learn to drive it on a track, see what you dislike about the car and then take corrective measure to upgrade it.

There is no other way to go.

I drive a 2008 Si 4 door regulary on a track (it's my brother's) and I think the car is very well tuned OEM to learn how to drive on a track until you become more of an advanced driver.

Adding a swaybar without knowing what you do is the best way to be very, very slow and uncomfident at the track.

Go out and have fun...

 

Thanks for the quick response. I was a twice SCCA National Solo II Champion and currently work as a paid High Performance Driver School classroom and in-car instructor with over 25 years of HPDS instructor experience. I have already driven several new 2008 Civic Si coupes and sedan on track at Carolina Motorsports Park. Yes, the stock all season tires are poor track rubber, but I am use to driving many novice students' cars on similar tires. I am now very use to driving my son, Andy's (Hoochn), '95 Civic hatchback & 2000 ITR track cars and fully understand the need to use suspension mods to help these fwd cars to rotate better into the corners (I can actually throttle steer the '95 hatch & 2000 ITR through the esses at CMP & VIR without lifting a rear wheel). This is what I am trying to do for the Civic Si sedan and am trying to get some input from track junkies that have real world experience with various suspension mods (other then adjustible coil overs like the Buddy Clubs on our '95 hatch or great PIC Performance units on the 2000 ITR) for this primarily street car.

 

Contact Clayton (Ausmith). He had some susp. mods on his at Expo.

He may be slow to respond since he is gearing up for the Eurobike and Interbike trade shows with work.

 

Thanks Chris! I will try to contact Clayton. Have you heard what track will be used for Expo 9? JOHN

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicRS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Have you heard what track will be used for Expo 9? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have not.

You may want to call RedShift Motorsports in PA. From there site it appears they have some experience with susp. tuning the SI. My fiance has a SI Sedan (which I will probably inherit once married) so please post what you find out.
http://www.redshiftmotorsports...n.htm

 

I will contact RedShift tomorrow to see what they know about 2008 Civic Si suspension and the Si sedan in particular. Separately I sent an email to Corsport USA with questions about the 22mm rear sway bar (and adjustable drop links), rear & front tie bars and front H brace that they sell. Tai responded with two very short emails.

The first one states their Progress 22 mm bar does not include new drop links (so the stock OEM Honda drop links must be acceptible), but he suggested that I "check out" the metal v2 Corsport adjustable end links. I have had some experience with BMW & Porsche adjustable sway bar upgrades. The heim joints help to keep the link position stable throughout the range of up & down twisting movement of the sway bar arms. The adjustable link length allows for removing any "pre-load" (positive or negative) on the bar at rest. I will talk to Kevin H. at Hondawerks about this bar and the adjustable links.

Tai's second message simply states that the tie bars and H brace "absolutely help".
I need more info than that. Have Corsport or the parts manufacturers tested the stock 2007-2008 Civic Si coupe & sedan to confirm chassis flex that these tie bars and H brace help to stablize, or have they just made up some parts based upon prior generation Civics & Integras items that they are offering just to generate some new sales? Or are these just "bling" items for show? I definitely do not want to add any parts with additional weight (even minor weight from aluminum parts) if they do not provide improved handling and track performance.

I also emailed Al Hung at PIC Performance. Andy (Hoochn) and I are real fans of the PIC adjustable coil overs. They dramatically improved the handling of his ITR and are equal to or better than the results provided by the original high performance Buddy Club units on the '95 Civic hatchback. PIC will be working on adjustable units for the 2007-2009 Civic Si after they complete their S2000 product development project. So Al did not have any suspension input for the new Civic Si. PIC performs significant testing of the stock cars before designing test units and then making appropriate changes due to on track testing until the best final solution and results are achieved. I really respect their real world R&D testing to develop the best final product that provides positive results on track.

I will keep you aware of what I learn over the next few weeks. JOHN

 

I am leaning toward buying the PIC coilovers myself, but from what i understand, an '06+ si set is available currently. I haven't pursued it much more than this thread:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2325861

maybe hit up mlrmotorsports to see what he is selling.

 

Is anyone making anything trick for the front of that car, taking into account its manufactured with a MacPherson set up...

 

According to Al Hung, PIC Product Development, yesterday, they will not be working on a system for the 2007-2009 Civic Si coupe & sedan until they are finished with the current project for the S2000. Please contact Al directly at AHung@PICPerformance.com or call him at (630) 364-1412. Tell him that John Meek told you to contact him about products for the new Si coupe & sedan. He is very technical and has a large amount of hands-on experience with Honda suspension systems. Good Luck and let me know if you find out any other good info about suspension upgrades for the new Si coupe & sedan.

 

That is exactly what I am trying to find out. Yes, there are several manufacturers featuring front lower tie bars and front H braces for the 2006-2008 Civic Si coupe and sedan. I want to know exactly what testing was done on track with a stock Si coupe & sedan, did they confirm that the chassis mounting points have too much flex and what test & results were found with their lower tie bars and H braces. There are also a few upper front shock tower braces on the market. All require that the black plastic cowling pieces be removed for access. Some strut bars will not allow replacement of those pieces. At least one does allow replacement of the stock pieces without modification (cutting). Unfortunately that one has swivel joints. My experience with those type of swivel jt. units on BMWs and older Civics & Integras is that they still allow some shock tower movement. Notice that the '95 E36 M3 CSL (light weight) and Type Rs had solid or fixed mounted strut bars from the factories. I have an AC Schnitzer fixed mounted strut bar on my M3 and would only buy a fixed mounted bar for the Si sedan.


Modified by CivicRS at 6:17 PM 9/3/2008

 

:
http://honda-portal.com/honda-...=1006



Modified by Hooch'n at 2:24 PM 9/4/2008

 

http://honda-portal.com/honda-...=1006

Andy: Now that is what I'm talkin about! A real Mugan Civic sedan not just a body kit, wheels & exhaust kit. If the US Mugan Si sedan lists for $30K+ what would this real thing <U></U>go for in the US? It must be faster than the Euro Civic Type R.

What did you think of the eBay auctions that I sent you?

 

I would recommend the HFP suspension kit. It is now the SSB Si suspension kit, and it is apparently fanf@#$ingtastic. Only $600.

I don't think you can drop an Si all that much (Mcstruts) and maintain good suspension travel. The HFP kit doesn't lower much at all.


Modified by MaddMatt at 3:16 AM 9/5/2008

 

That's correct, we'll start real work on these new Civics after we've completed the S2000 coilovers. We've simply got too much invested in them (the S2000 coilovers) to leave the project now and begin another.

 

http://honda-portal.com/honda-...d=615

Eg is still better

 

my girlfriend has one we autocross it it has alot of bodyrooll good car

 

We ran one for a few years, to really get the car to preform we found it to be similar to the RSX. It needs to be stiff.

Moton or Koni 2812s is were i would look, or like Matt suggested the HFP kit.

 

JRZ will probably the best choice. The RS series is very affordable. We've been running their full blown race setup for a few years now with great success.

 

Thanks for the response and HFP suspension suggestion. Do you know anyone that has run track events with a Civic with this suspension? I don't want just a lower ride height. I want a good track setup. I will probably just start with a 22 mm rear bar to see what that does with the stock Si struts/shocks/springs. We like the PIC Performance adjustable coil overs so well on the ITR that I will probably just wait for Al to develope a PIC system for the 2007-2009 Civic Si.

 

Anyone has tried the T1R coilover setup? To me, it seems very cheap, and I don't understand why.

The reason Im interested is they are local for me, (Js shop), so I could technically drive up and get one.

 

I have received some excellent responses to my questions regarding aftermarket suspension options for the 2007-2008 Civic Si sedan. I have not received any responses regarding the suspension that you mention. Many aftermarket systems are for lowering and do not improve track event handling. Although these systems lower the ride height and center of gravity, they may not improve handling. Some help only with tight parking lot type autocross handling. I am trying to find someone that has experience with the Honda HFP suspension on track. However, like we found with our '95 Civic hatch and ITR, coilovers with ride height adjustable spring perches on all four corners allow for reduction of roll center while also providing the capability for corner weight balancing.

Unfortunately only the front struts on the new Integras & Civics provide the option of a ride height adjustable coilover. Like my E36 M3 the rears are separate shock/spring design the takes more design/R&D work to get the best setup, unless someone comes up with a special replacement coilover system. The Bilstein PSS9 system for my M3 still uses the front adjustable struts & separate rear shock/spring layout while H&R offers coilover shocks on all four corners. However the H&H coilovers are street performance only (they have one of these systems available for the 2007-2008 Civic Si coupe & sedan). They are not yet available in adjustable or, better yet, the RSS Club Sport system for my M3 or Civic Si sedan. Eibach also has a ProStreet Kit available four corner coilover system for the M3 but it is not for track handling improvements. It will be interesting to see what PIC Performance designs.

 

I completely agree. The thing is its Js Racing thats selling it, and they have quiet a few T1R performance parts. Moreover, they are a well respected shop with quiet a track record (see any of the big name time attacks). So I assume they cannot be selling a poor set of coilovers, but I guess the best thing to do would be to eventually go talk to them in person. Im mostly looking for adjustability and a compromised spring rate (something like 8k/6k) thats performance orientated and livable. I drove my race car on the street for a while (10k/8k + revalved) and I could live with that, and thats where my hesitation comes in with the HFP idea.

Even though its performance orientated, I cannot see some manufacturer special be sufficient for track duty. I have never found "track specials" and "factory tuned" suspensions sufficient (nismo, mazdaspeed). On top of that I could not find even decent specs for this HFP suspension, nor does the low price make me any less apprehensive.

However I should note that I watched the best motoring video about the new type-r (FD2). Im not sure of what suspension that car uses, but that is one of the stiffest, most aggressive, mass produced factory cars I have seen. In that respect if the HFP suspension (I doubt it) is what that car is riding on, then it might be sufficient.

However, I think you are going down the right path and I will be doing the same thing eventually. Start with the bar. Then new stickies, pads and alignment. And eventualy work your way into the suspension. I suspect with some azenis, hawks, a bar, and 2.5-3 degrees negative camber up front and 2 in the rear you could have a capable track companion.

And you intially asked whats the best bang for buck, (and from what you say I guess you know) nothing will be better than just some sticky, slightly wider tires.

Here are some links of my local stuff to throw more ideas in:

http://www.aj-racing.com/catal...age=1
http://www.aj-racing.com/catal...age=1