so my previous motor was an 84x89 with all factory honda parts. made 196/140 on a dynapack and was/is a great motor. but now i found a great deal locally on a sleeved 84mm bock, which i will bore to 85mm since i like all motor not boost now..

ive searched around all day now, and all i can find is very objective opinions on parts. so...

headgasket - cometic vs. GE vs. factory b20?
-all i could find was people saying XXX gasket ...im looking for true reasons why one would be better than another. i run a ge on my current motor and its been great. so i may stick with them.

rods - 95% sure its gonna be eagle h beams unless someone convinces me otherwise

pistons - tough one here for me since ive never had to buy a set of pistons. je vs. wiseco vs. cp vs. rs machines?
-rs machines is the only one not listing 85mm pistons on their site, but im waiting to hear back. looking to get some 12.5cr pistons most likely

head - its a gsr head. thinking im gonna upgrade to the new spring type lma's, possibly new valves (oem or aftermarker im not sure) but they will be stock size and stock cr. and looking at some mild port/valve work from combustion contraption. anything else i should look at?

overall im loking to reach the 220-230whp range. i already have ported TWM 50mm's, skunk2 pro1 cams, an an-r street header, 440 injectors and neptune RTP. will most likely throw a 3 inch exhaust in the mix also.

any general insight/advice/info you guys can throw in (b19, marc, acydphryck ect...i mean you guys!) would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

 

A good IM will help your cause, I went with the PerformerX, had CC port it and what not.

 

just giving some ideas,but those cams are gonna be on the smaller side for a 85x89. im also thinking the 50mm itb's are gonna be a bit small for that size. i would consult donf for proper sizing for your motor.
also rs does make 85mm,it should be the .040 o/s pistons. i would go with them and stock rods. when you get the head done let steve know ahead of time what cams,compression,powerband your looking for,so i would make up your mind on those before sending the head off. for head gaskets,you cant go wrong with oem but i have had good exeriences personally with cometic.

 

You remember the little silver CRX, right?

B20B block
85mm stock sleeves
RS Machines pistons
Stock rods with ARP bolts
No girdle, no blockguard
PR3 head
Brian Crower Stage 3's
UGR valvetrain
Victor X manifold
Tri-Y header
QTP exhaust cutout
Tuned with NepTune

Made 239whp/163wtq.

The Eagle H-Beams are nice rods, but they are heavy.

- Derek

 

Here's my advice:

1) Sell the ITBs and get a manifold.
2) Go with a stock rod unless you plan to get a really good (ie light and strong) rod like a Carillo A.
3) Sell the ANR and get a better header. (SMS or DTR would be excellent choices)

With the money from the ITBS, you could get a good port job from CC.

4) I would follow Bill's build (the one D-rob listed).


One last thing, quality machine work and clearances are the difference between power and poop. I try to get all of my induction components (ie manifold, cams, and header) to match up. The pro1 are a good cam. No need to change.

 

Ok guys - i'm probably jumping headfirst into an onslaught but screw it . . .

I really don't agree with any of you haha. .

Any of the piston manufacturors you listed will be fine. JE tends to be a little more expensive than the others but CP, wiseco, arias, etc are all great products.
I used JE in my last build, but have seen CPs in everything from basic B series builds to 350hp Ks . .

If i had a choice between stock rods and eagle rods, I would go with the eagle hands down. Yes they are a little heavy but will be fine for what you are planning to do. If you have the money, by all means upgrade them to something better as stated. . We can argue rotating weight and how it affects longevity of a motor until we are blue in the face, but the rods will be fine FOR WHAT YOU ARE PLANNING . .

The ITBs may be a little constrictive but no way to really tell without putting it on a dyno. If my 300hp 2.6L motor was fine on 52mms, i cant see 50s being THAT bad on this build. I would not sell for a manifold but that is entirely your choice.

Pro1s will be fine for a daily driver, pro2s would definitely enhance performance further but i think since you already have them, just use them.

CC head- Steve is the man, i highly doubt you will be dissappointed . .

I always like to use OEM headgaskets as much as possible so if you can get away with a b 20 it might be worth it, if not cometic and ge also make good products. .

Take it for what its worth . . after all its only my opinion . . .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You remember the little silver CRX, right?

B20B block
85mm stock sleeves
RS Machines pistons
Stock rods with ARP bolts
No girdle, no blockguard
PR3 head
Brian Crower Stage 3's
UGR valvetrain
Victor X manifold
Tri-Y header
QTP exhaust cutout
Tuned with NepTune

Made 239whp/163wtq.

The Eagle H-Beams are nice rods, but they are heavy.

- Derek</TD></TR></TABLE>

of course i remember the crx! i just was too lazy to hunt down the setup. and yeah i was tired last night completly knew rs made 85mm pistons...what i meant was i was looking for a set of higher compression than there 85mm r remakes since that only puts me at about 11.9:1 and i was looking for 12.5ish:1.

i could reuse the ls rods out of my current motor, but they took some serious heat from the last time pistons were put on, so id rather start with something new, just figured i would go with eagle for 300 bucks and like the insurance they might give for a little more revs. any idea how much heavier they really are?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's my advice:

1) Sell the ITBs and get a manifold.
2) Go with a stock rod unless you plan to get a really good (ie light and strong) rod like a Carillo A.
3) Sell the ANR and get a better header. (SMS or DTR would be excellent choices)

With the money from the ITBS, you could get a good port job from CC.

4) I would follow Bill's build (the one D-rob listed).

One last thing, quality machine work and clearances are the difference between power and poop. I try to get all of my induction components (ie manifold, cams, and header) to match up. The pro1 are a good cam. No need to change.</TD></TR></TABLE>


1) tryingto sell the itb's and getting no bites, if they go i already planned to go performer x, if they dont sell, ill deal with it i think, i dont think they will choke me off that bad, they were ported, so they may be a tad larger than 50mm

2) ^^^see above post for rod dilemma

3)is the ar gonna be that bad? all the header tests i saw the anr finished mid pack. i think the only thing worth upgrading to would be finding a true 2L header. but i will in no way have money for a brand new one unfortunately.

i also think the pro1's will be just fine.

thanks for the input! keep it comin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by killerpenguin21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3)is the ar gonna be that bad? all the header tests i saw the anr finished mid pack. i think the only thing worth upgrading to would be finding a true 2L header. but i will in no way have money for a brand new one unfortunately.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hopefully, you can sell the ITBS and get a good header. I'm a strong proponent of an exceptional header. While the ANR is ok that middle of the pack performance is going to hold you back, IMO.

 

yeah i agree. i got the anr for like 300 bucks and it was gonna be better than what i had. although i was hoping to get some gearing changes done also, but ill have to plan it out. although i have had a hell of a time trying to sell parts lately.

 

I personally wouldn't even mess with the Performer X on the setup.

- Derek

 

why's that?

You and john are my shop/tuners so any findings you have from the crx please share haha

 

If you chop up the Performer X, it might work out alright for you, but ideally, what RPM range are you shooting for?

- Derek

 

well thats the thing.

you saw the powerband i have now, and its great on the street, but not so much at the 1/4 mile. so im not sure what to do. id like to move it right on the graph a tad but i do feel like anything else but the itb's will make too drastic a shift...or rob power.

 

I don't think a ported Performer X or even a port-matched Victor X will rob any power.

- Derek

 

yeah i meant most other options would rob power, but the performer may just make a nasty shift of the power to the right....aka too far for my liking.

 

so i had a long drive tonight to ponder my setup.

the rs machines site says there 85mm itr copy pistons prodice 11.9:1 with a gsr head. knowing this, i may use the cost difference between a set of forged pistons and the rs pieces and buy a set of flat face valves to get be to the 12:1 or so im looking for. i feel like i should get new valves since im using a 94 gsr head with unknown miles, all i know is the 2500 ive put on it.

hmmm....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Rob &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The Eagle H-Beams are nice rods, but they are heavy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

in a little searching i found some conflicting info...one thread said the eagles weigh on the high side of the factory gsr rod weight, and one thread saying the eagles are way heavier but with no evidence...

see here https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2227281

 

why dont u go with bigger cams than the pro1's, we are talking about 85mm lol

 

Not sure why you're so hung up on 12-12.5:1 compression. The cams you're using certainly don't require that much and at 11.9:1, you'll have a lot more room for more aggressive tuning which can get you more power with better reliability.

The cams you have now will work well but clearly, pro 2's seem to be the best choice for most 85x89 builds that I have seen. Also, have you considered the S2 pro series manifold? On the testing that BearsEK did, it showed a type R style manifold doing quite well on a mildly built 2L without a "drastic" shift in power to the right. It also performed better than the Edelbrock performer x did on that same combination if my memory serves.

As far as rods go, have a machine shop check your stock rods to see if they're ok. They really are all you need but you can use the eagle rods if you insist. The extra weight isn't always desireable but many use them with no problems. It's just a good place to save some money if you can reuse the stock ones.

Like others have said, the header should be upgraded, at a later time if required, to really let that combo breathe and make more power. The key is that you can always do this easily later.

The headgasket really isn't that big a deal. In all honesty, if you've used GE with success in the past, you know it's good quality and that personal experience with that product is plenty reason enough to continue using it.

 

i like the sks3's for a 2.0 build. you should check out trackspeedracings b20-v's. thats usually what they use along with a p&p itr manifold,rs cast pistons,and head work. they make around 240+ whp and run mid 11's in the 1320 in a crx.

 

name me a better all around cam than the pro1, that will respond on lo cam as well. pro2's probably would be nice, but i dont want to deal with such tight head clearances, for what could turn out to not be a huge gain. the regular stage 3's are way to much of an on/off cam (ever look at the lo/hi cam? its huge). i was going for 12:1 ish because thats what i have on my motor now and the pro1's really liked it, so i know they are happy at that level, not something i definetly need to reach, but just a general idea.

all manifolds have been considered, its just a fact of if i sell the itb's (they are up for sale, but getting rediculous low ***** of course). if they dont sell i think they will do fine.

i think i should be able to get another set of ls rods. my local machine shop closed down so i have no easy way to get my rods checked anymore. they seemed to use excessive heat last time around, so i think if i get the pistons pressed off again they may be risky.

 

[QUOTE=00Red_SiR]Not sure why you're so hung up on 12-12.5:1 compression. The cams you're using certainly don't require that much and at 11.9:1, you'll have a lot more room for more aggressive tuning which can get you more power with better reliability.


Hey, I was wondering if you could explain to me what u meant, I thought that if he went with a higher compression he would make more power??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gmen08 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Hey, I was wondering if you could explain to me what u meant, I thought that if he went with a higher compression he would make more power?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Like all things, bigger/more is not always better. Compression is good up to a point for making power on pump gas. If he was using race gas with much higher octane or e85, it would be a different story but there are still limits. The ideal setup to aim for is the "best combination of parts and tuning" for a given application. An "application" that is going to be driven on the street using pump gas, as a daily driver, only seeing some minor track use, will not benefit from say 14:1 compression. It will make more power safely, running 11.5-12:1 on pump gas with the right part combinations than at 14:1 all else being equal.

Usually what happens is that someone goes and runs 13:1 + on pump gas and unless they find themselves a really good tuner, they have problems. They usually end up having to pull a bunch of timing just to get the car to run without detonating.

Octane, cams, timing, fuel, compression etc are all good things in the right amounts. Too much of any one of them will not make power, they will destroy an engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Octane, cams, timing, fuel, compression etc are all good things in the right amounts. Too much of any one of them will not make power, they will destroy an engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i like how you put that...as thats what i follow. personally i see 12.5 as about the perfect street compression, since i know i have a competent tuner. thats also why i dont really want to move up to the pro2 cams, ive seen them overcam motors, and plus the clearances become VERY tight imho.

i picked up the block today...turns out its been decked more than just when they put the sleeves in, so with the rs itr pistons i should have exactly the compression i wont, its just unfortunate we dont know exactly how much it has been decked.

whats a common amount to deck if there are no major flaws and you are just making sure its flat?