Alright heres the deal. Right now my 93 civic hatch is completly stock suspension wise and i was looking to change this. I want to lower it and have a better handling car without sacrificing a comfortable ride. I was looking at a good Spring and Shock combo since my budget is not too high enough to buy coilovers but i also don't just want springs with blown shocks or something.

What im looking for is something that drops the car about 2 inches all around. I dont want to be slammed or tucking tires, and i want to be able to get around town and in and out of parking lots. But i also dont want like a 1.2 inch drop and it looks like i did nothing and still have all the horrible wheel gap. I was looking at many springs such as Tein S-Techs but many people say their like stock and dont really improve handling at all, and just overrated. I thought about others like H&R race, but many said the ride was too stiff and the drop was really low. I want to be able to have passengers in my car and not hear them complain or not break my own back riding around town.

Right now im leaning towards the Skunk2 lowering springs mainly because of price. What good shocks do you guys recommend? Do these springs go good with the Skunk2 shocks, or are there any other set ups you guys have in mind. Lastly heres the quicker my budget is only $500. So i want a spring and shock combo under that. Hope you guys can help me out or let me know if the Skunk2 springs and shock combo is a good idea.

 

Pick any two: Cheap, comfortable, low, performance. You can't have them all.

With a $500 budget, you're going to have to either buy used components, or get a job. Nothing worthwhile can be bought for under $500 new, period. Also, if you intend to be riding around 4 fat chicks all the time, expect to have rubbing and/or scraping issues.

I'd recommend a set of H&R Sport springs with Tokico Illumina dampers. Don't forget that you WILL need to have the car aligned to set the toe after installing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pick any two: Cheap, comfortable, low, performance. You can't have them all.

With a $500 budget, you're going to have to either buy used components, or get a job. Nothing worthwhile can be bought for under $500 new, period. Also, if you intend to be riding around 4 fat chicks all the time, expect to have rubbing and/or scraping issues.

I'd recommend a set of H&R Sport springs with Tokico Illumina dampers. Don't forget that you WILL need to have the car aligned to set the toe after installing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand its hard to get the best of all in one package, but im just looking for a well rounded set up. I understand the $500 budget is low, i do have money, but i dont see the need for throwing down 1k on some coilovers and my car will never even see a track day. I can spend more than $500, the money is there, like i said i just dont see a need to. If i wanted something great i'd go ahead and get GC and some Koni Yellows. But i dont need all that.

The Skunk2 spring and shock combo can be had for about $400, are these any good or worthwhile? Right now im just looking to get opinions and some hints at whats good out there. Just throw me out some ideas. Any experience with Neuspeed Race springs? I've heard the drop on those is right about 2 inches but how do they ride, and are the Illuminas much better than the tokico blues, i see their more expensive.

 

I would highly recommend Koni shocks no matter what setup you end up getting. Mine are nearly 7 years old with over 160K miles on them and are still working great. They have had a variety of spring setups on them and have never missed a beat.

Of course those shocks will eat up $500 on their own, but for how well they hold up and handle things, it's most definitely worth it IMHO.

 

I'd spend an extra $100-$150 and get a quality setup. You can get Bilstein HD + H&R Sport Springs for around $600. That should fit the bill for what you need.

 

Is there anything else besides the Koni Yellows? I dont want to throw down that much for shocks when i wont put them to track use or something. This car is just for daily driving. Are the Skunk2 sport shocks, or Tokico Blues or Illuminas bad choices or something?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prism250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there anything else besides the Koni Yellows?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, the Bilsteins or Tokico's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prism250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont want to throw down that much for shocks when i wont put them to track use or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As if the street requires any less of a shock. I would rather spend an extra $100 on a quality brand for my street car, with proven performance and a fantastic warranty to back that up. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is better to save that $100 for underglow or something.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prism250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are the Skunk2 sport shocks, or Tokico Blues or Illuminas bad choices or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Illumina's are nice, but you dont need damping adjustability on a daily driver. Blues are just OE replacements.

I don't know jack about the Skunk2's, maybe if they had a shock dyno. But I wouldn't bet my money blindly with a company who makes shocks and shift *****.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Premium Dude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, the Bilsteins or Tokico's.

As if the street requires any less of a shock. I would rather spend an extra $100 on a quality brand for my street car, with proven performance and a fantastic warranty to back that up. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is better to save that $100 for underglow or something.

Illumina's are nice, but you dont need damping adjustability on a daily driver. Blues are just OE replacements.

I don't know jack about the Skunk2's, maybe if they had a shock dyno. But I wouldn't bet my money blindly with a company who makes shocks and shift *****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So get Bilsteins or Tokicos as far as shocks go. Dont buy the cheap Skunk2 cause they probably suck. And dont spend money on an underglow kit. I think i got it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prism250 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there anything else besides the Koni Yellows? I dont want to throw down that much for shocks when i wont put them to track use or something. This car is just for daily driving. Are the Skunk2 sport shocks, or Tokico Blues or Illuminas bad choices or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not when you can probably be assured they'll more than outlast other cheaper shocks? If you plan on keeping your car for many years (as I did and have done), IMHO I'd much rather spend $500 once on shocks that can go 200K+ miles than $250 or more several times over that same mileage.

Oh yeah, my car has been tracked like 4 times in 7 years, but still having the adjustability is really cool. I like that I can set it stiff when I feel like taking some windy back roads to work. Then I can crank it down soft when the wife rides with me.

I don't get all these people who post on here asking what setting they should put their shocks on duhhh put it on what feels good to you. When I was in school and making frequent trips back to my home town, I used to always keep the shocks set stiffer around town, and then turn them down to soft for the long road trip. Adjustable shocks rule!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why not when you can probably be assured they'll more than outlast other cheaper shocks? If you plan on keeping your car for many years (as I did and have done), IMHO I'd much rather spend $500 once on shocks that can go 200K+ miles than $250 or more several times over that same mileage.

Oh yeah, my car has been tracked like 4 times in 7 years, but still having the adjustability is really cool. I like that I can set it stiff when I feel like taking some windy back roads to work. Then I can crank it down soft when the wife rides with me.

I don't get all these people who post on here asking what setting they should put their shocks on duhhh put it on what feels good to you. When I was in school and making frequent trips back to my home town, I used to always keep the shocks set stiffer around town, and then turn them down to soft for the long road trip. Adjustable shocks rule!</TD></TR></TABLE>

No i dont plan on driving an old civic for long. I'll probably sell this within two years. But i see your point with adjustable shocks. I dont want to buy some non-adjustable like the Skunk2 sports and then be unhappy that their too stiff or too soft and not be able to change it. This is why im leaning towards the Illuminas since they are adjustable. Sorry cant afford the Konis . Af far as springs you guys seem to like the H&R sport. How is the drop on those? H&R sport with Illuminas then?

 

im also curious about the strut and spring combo. well...mostly the shocks. I was considering on buying a set of skunk2 shocks but after reading about it in this thread and others im starting to have doubts about them. as always koni's and bilstein's always get great feedbacks since they've been in the business for a long time. oh yeah, and tokico's too.

so what are the best shocks to get for a daily driver besides the koni's and bilstein's. my car is lowered 2.5/2.0 on some NRG coilovers w/ stock shocks and its bumpy as hell. every time i go over a bump or those smooth pot holes i get thrown out of the seat. im 5'8 and my head will hit the roof sometimes.

lets just say what type of shock should be purchased if the driver/owner wants his car to ride smooth as if it was stock but is lowered/slammed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeverLift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lets just say what type of shock should be purchased if the driver/owner wants his car to ride smooth as if it was stock but is lowered/slammed?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, that's just not possible. Riding that low on coilovers is going to need at least Tokico Illumina shocks. It's still going to ride very rough, though.

If the springs are too soft, it will bottom out all the time and ride like @$$. If the springs are stiff enough to keep the suspension from bottoming out, then it will ride very rough.

When I had GC's on my Konis with 380/450 f/r spring rates, I would also bounce out of the seat on large bumps and dips, as well.

 

So, the message I'm getting here (as a lurker) is this:
"There is no comprimise...either low and impossibly hard, or stock and soft". Can that possibly be right?
I'm kinda in the same boat as the OP, but with a 94 Integra LS. I don't want to lower the car much, if at all...it's knee achingly low as it is. But, as a handling freek and motorcycle roadracer, I want the improved control and responsiveness that an upgraded suspension can offer...horsepower don't help in the twisties, y'know!
Do I get the same recommendation: Koni yellows or Illuminas with springs? And live with a backbreaking ride?
C'mon....really?

 

No, not really, but the exaggeration helps get the message across to lots of newbies that you can't "have your cake and eat it too". People unfamiliar with suspension often have the misconception that lower + stiffer = better, and that they are all true hardcore racers and can deal with a harsh ride on their daily driver even if the car never sees the track. The reality is, many of those same people are going for overkill and don't realize it until it's too late, and they end up suffering with an unnecessarily harsh ride.

There definitely is a compromise between comfort and performance, but lots of people have the wrong idea on where that compromise sits on the spectrum. The fact is, it's different for each driver and while no DD *needs* 400+ lbs/in springs, many people seem to think that they do.

People who go for the look of a slammed ride should recognize and accept that there is no function in something like that, the ride will be unpleasant and the lifespan of some of the suspension components is likely going to be shortened. If you do that expecting performance gains, then just you're fooling yourself.

 

That's what I thought. NOW;
What would be recommended for me, product wise? In motorcycle roadracing, road feel is king...I have an Ohlins rear shock and fully RaceTech modified front fork on my road/trackday Honda Superhawk, and I like to say "if I run over a gnats' ***, I can feel it", yet I don't get my spine crushed on the bigger street hits.
I don't/won't be asking as much from my car, just that it be as fun as possible to toss around in the mountains of North Georgia, and maybe Deal's Gap (if I can avoid the attack of the squids up there ). And that it still function as a day-to-day fun runabout.
So, what do I get on a budget, and within that definition? I do NOT want to drop the car 2", in any event.


Modified by WERA689 at 11:53 AM 9/7/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WERA689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, what do I get on a budget, and within that definition? I do NOT want to drop the car 2", in any event.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tokico HP Struts and H&R Sport Springs

 

Wow. Thanks for the specific reply! I was considering that setup, or the Tein Basic setup. Comparable or no?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeverLift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Tokico HP Struts and H&R Sport Springs </TD></TR></TABLE>

No. H&R Sports will kill HP shocks.

My first set of springs I had with my Koni Sport shocks were H&R Sport springs. It rode pretty harsh on rough roads, and they also lowered more than I expected them to. The Konis could handle it, but I highly suspect that Tokico HP shocks would not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WERA689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow. Thanks for the specific reply! I was considering that setup, or the Tein Basic setup. Comparable or no?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i thought you were on a budget? if your gonna spend the amount of money on the tein basics, you mind as well buy some koni yellows and those H&R springs. the koni's has adjustable damping for different driving styles/conditions and the tein basics dont, there just height adjustable.

tein basic = $800+

tokico+H&R = roughly $500

koni+H&R = roughly $800

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No. H&R Sports will kill HP shocks.

My first set of springs I had with my Koni Sport shocks were H&R Sport springs. It rode pretty harsh on rough roads, and they also lowered more than I expected them to. The Konis could handle it, but I highly suspect that Tokico HP shocks would not.</TD></TR></TABLE>


intresting.... my dad has tokico hp struts and h&r sport spring in his civic and its been going good since 2000.

 

The only Tokicos worth buying are Illuminas.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeverLift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

intresting.... my dad has tokico hp struts and h&r sport spring in his civic and its been going good since 2000.</TD></TR></TABLE>

8 years lowered on Tokico HP shocks and the shocks haven't worn/blown out yet... somehow I find that hard to believe

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
8 years lowered on Tokico HP shocks and the shocks haven't worn/blown out yet... somehow I find that hard to believe</TD></TR></TABLE>

believe it or not his car still rides pretty smooth... comparing it to my friends civic w/ stock struts and the same H&R springs, i still feel that my old man's car rides smoother and its been about 2 months since my buddy slap'd the springs on. its really on how the person drives the car and the roads they drives on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Premium Dude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't know jack about the Skunk2's, maybe if they had a shock dyno. But I wouldn't bet my money blindly with a company who makes shocks and shift *****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously read up about Skunks racing history...Mugen and Spoon also make shift ***** so I guess they're junk to....D

 

whats up with springs rates? does the ride quality get stiffer as the numbers go up?

i

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeverLift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats up with springs rates? does the ride quality get stiffer as the numbers go up?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes.

Spring rates are expressed as (X units of force) needed to compress the spring (1 unit of distance). In imperial units this is typically X pounds per 1 inch, and in metric it is typically X kilograms per 1 millimeter.

For example, a spring rate of 100 lbs-in would mean that it takes 100 pounds of force to compress that spring 1 inch. Replace that with a 200 lbs-in spring, and it will take 200 pounds of force to compress it 1 inch - twice as stiff, meaning that the suspension will move a smaller distance for a given force input (a bump, body roll, brake dive, etc.).