Anyone have this done? Just wondering how much it costs...

 

bump for you
I've only seen seam welding on rally cars. I do not know if any seam welded Honda's in my small circle of experience.

 

No idea what someone would charge, but be sure its legal in your class (or any class you think you might one day LIKE to run.) Few classes allow it and it might really hurt the resale value of the car if you ever wanted to sell it...

 

Did I read correctly (Honda Tuning) that Papadakis was stitch-welding his chassis for HC? H4 CRX I think. I was surprised when I saw that, thinking it was illegal.

 

I've seen seam riveting in addition to seam welding

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did I read correctly (Honda Tuning) that Papadakis was stitch-welding his chassis for HC? H4 CRX I think. I was surprised when I saw that, thinking it was illegal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Section 4.9
5) Tubes may be welded at any contact point, or even be “seam welded.” Additional material may beused to connect roll cage tubing to chassis of car. I.E. A pillar bar may have material welded to both itself and the A pillar of the car.
6) If modification number 4.9.5 above is utilized, an additional thirty (30) pound weight penalty will apply.

The rule above can be used to justify seem welding. Whether the argument is valid or not would be a matter for the officials to decide if a seem-welded car ever comes under protest.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen seam riveting in addition to seam welding </TD></TR></TABLE>
seen it. and it looks cool, but welding it is easier and stronger.

i was under the impression it wasnt legal too.

 

c) The trim level of the car as it is classed for competition must remain intact. Mixing and matching of
trim levels is not permitted. Examples of body swaps:
Legal: A H3 Integra GS-R may be rebuilt from an Integra RS tub. The “advantages” of the
RS shell are the lack of sunroof and ABS – both of which may be removed under these
rules.
Illegal: An H3 Integra GS-R may not be rebuilt using an Integra Type R shell. The Type R
shell has structural reinforcements that are not available on RS/LS/GS/GS-R Integras.

^^^ thats why i thought seam welding was illegal


I thought it was a illegal in most classes but I guess in HC it's not(as long as you have the penalty) The fact that you cant swap a type-r body is why I thought it would be illegal. but wouldn't the only advantage from a gsr to type-r be the additional seam weld and in which case couldn't you just add the 30lb's for the body swap?

 

Type R bodies have additional reinforcement, but are not seam-welded.

Also Thawley, that section refers specifically to the rollcage, or even going back to "Safety" but not "Chassis Prep" or something. I think that'd be quite a stretch for legality, just based on the IIDSYCTYC theme. But, wtf do I know about rules?

 

Section 4.9 seems to deal directly with, basically, adding additional attachment points of your roll cage to the chassis. I'm not sure they have had to deal with an entire chassis being seam welded before.....


Sorry inh, we've gotten off topic of your original question.

 

IRRC early on there was a specific rule that said "seam welding the chassis is legal" But, two or three years ago it was pulled out of the rule book.

Now some people take thawley's interpretation, and other think like MrlegoMan.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did I read correctly (Honda Tuning) that Papadakis was stitch-welding his chassis for HC? H4 CRX I think. I was surprised when I saw that, thinking it was illegal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A quick look under that same car by a friend of mine accidentally revealed a fuel delivery setup that is definitely not legal for H4. That's the kind of stuff they don't mention in the fluffy magazine articles. The Tech department in club racing leagues leaves ALOT to be desired. There seems to be a separate rule set for those that are fast, or have a good name.......It's my opinion that probably every car out there has something on it that is not legal, except ours, of course, maybe that's one reason why we're so freakin' slow.....
Now back to the Original Topic of this thread...good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IRRC early on there was a specific rule that said "seam welding the chassis is legal" But, two or three years ago it was pulled out of the rule book.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I remember the same thing.

I did some seam welding on my car when I had the whole front end stripped down. My car's always been slightly overweight, so I figured I might as well have take the benefit since I was carrying the 30lb penalty weight anyway. I read the rules very thoroughly at the time and was sure that it WAS legal. Looks like the rules have gotten changed since then. Oh well. I guess I'm a dirty cheater...

 

What about chassis foaming...anyone know of someone who's tried it?

 

Mike Kojima is the only one I know of for sure. I think he wrote a story about it for SCC a few years ago...

I've never been very excited about it. I like the notion of being able to weld on my car whenever its needed. Having that stuff on the other side of hot metal just seems like more trouble than its worth to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mike Kojima is the only one I know of for sure. I think he wrote a story about it for SCC a few years ago...

I've never been very excited about it. I like the notion of being able to weld on my car whenever its needed. Having that stuff on the other side of hot metal just seems like more trouble than its worth to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You weld it first, then foam it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soulpwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You weld it first, then foam it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Read it again:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the notion of being able to weld on my car whenever its needed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

"Whenever it's needed" meaning future repairs. A race car is a never-ending project, so there is no guarantee that you won't need to do additional welding after it's been foamed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"Whenever it's needed" meaning future repairs. A race car is a never-ending project, so there is no guarantee that you won't need to do additional welding after it's been foamed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah. What he said.

 

Good info guys, thanks =]

The reason I ask is because if I get another CRX, it will be completely stripped and restored, and I figured some seam welding wouldnt hurt at the same time..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JOE BD-0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A quick look under that same car by a friend of mine accidentally revealed a fuel delivery setup that is definitely not legal for H4. That's the kind of stuff they don't mention in the fluffy magazine articles. The Tech department in club racing leagues leaves ALOT to be desired. There seems to be a separate rule set for those that are fast, or have a good name.......It's my opinion that probably every car out there has something on it that is not legal, except ours, of course, maybe that's one reason why we're so freakin' slow.....
Now back to the Original Topic of this thread...good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh?
Are you talking about HC specifically, Amateur racing as a whole, or both?

In amateur racing, it's not really the job of the "tech" to catch you cheating. It's more his job to make sure your car is safe! Your competitors are the ones that keep you honest! That's the way it's always been done.
At bigger events (National Championships) they specifically look for things to catch, but only certain things that are chosen before hand.
I don't think a different rule set applies to me, and I'd probably classify as one of the "fast".
In fact, I'd say the slower cars are the ones that can get away with a lot! When you get to the front of the pack, everyone wants to look at your car to make sure everything's legal!

I'm curious about this "fuel delivery setup" that's not legal! Maybe you could PM me about it.

 

I'm curios about the "not legal fuel delivery system" used, as pretty much anything is legal in fuel delivery. The rules are out lined in the GCR not in the HC book though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm curios about the "not legal fuel delivery system" used, as pretty much anything is legal in fuel delivery. The rules are out lined in the GCR not in the HC book though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are external fuel pumps legal, or possibly an addition of an external surge tank?

Here's what the specific rule states in the HC rule subset:

"As Fuel lines, fuel pumps or fuel pressure regulators may be replaced with others of unrestricted origin."

The GCR simply talks about fuel cells, and when a bulkhead is required, nothing about how a fuel pump/installation of a fuel pump would be illegal.

The only thing that I could see is the installation of a sump on the OEM tank, as the rules don't state that you can modify the stock tank. Adding a sump is very common in the drag racing world, but it really reduces your ground clearance.


Modified by Austin at 4:57 PM 8/25/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Read it again:

"Whenever it's needed" meaning future repairs. A race car is a never-ending project, so there is no guarantee that you won't need to do additional welding after it's been foamed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just because its been foamed doesn't mean you cant weld at a later date or reweld things that break, BTW some cars come stock with panels that are foam filled ex: Infinity Q45, BMW 7 series

 

Having fixed my front chassis due to high stress, I can tell you that alot of preping is required. Need to remove all that joint sealer and if welding near the fire wall, remove most dash parts and insulations or else it's going to burn and a fire can start! I learned the hard way and also burnt down the car. I never thought that I was that near front the fire wall. And make sure to find a good welder, honda sheet metal are thin!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soulpwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just because its been foamed doesn't mean you cant weld at a later date or reweld things that break</TD></TR></TABLE>

Except that the foam is sort of flammable, apparently. So then you'd have a fire throughout the entire chassis, should you decide to weld something.