alright guys im having some issues getting this swap buttoned up and running right.. came across a CEL for the crankshaft position sensor the first time i fired it up and fixed that problem. now the issue im having is theres no CEL at all, yet the car will fire up, sputter, and instantly die unless i hold the accelarator down and keep the rpms up. however even as the rpms go up, the engine just sputters like its missing up until around 3k rpms. im lost, especially with it not throwing a CEL i really dont know where to start. the car ran when it was dpfi.. started and idled perfect, just did the same stutter deal when you would trying to rev it, just like now, only not as bad. any clues or ideas as to whats going on?

 

Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) wires need to be extended, the TPS is a black sensor on the side of the throttle body, there are 3 wires going to it, extend those, always solder and use heatshrink. On the TPS plug on the DX harness you will see 3 wires going to it, yellow, red, and green, in that order (if you are looking at the top of the clip from left to right on the DX clip). Depin and switch the green and yellow wires around so now the order is green, red, yellow. This is because the DX TPS sensor works in the reverse of the MPFI one, so if you didn't do that your car would think it was at redline when it was suppose to be at idle. So if you have that problem you know you skipped this step.

Not hard enough...

 

i actually extended the tps wiring, and used the SI plug and wires since it switches the wires for you in essence. unless i read something wrong..

 

You have to flip two wires around.
That should be the cause of it, since it's not giving you any CELs. Doubt it's a ground problem... Did you change the distributor?

 

yep swapped to an a6 dizzy...i read another thread on here before hand that you could use the tps plug from the si harness and you wouldnt have to swap the wires around because it was already done on the si harness.. just had to match colors up..

 

Just switch the wires tomorrow and use the old connectors, see if it fixes it... I doubt just switching it with a SI plug will do the job.. All the instructions i've read said to just swap the wires.

 

i'll give it a shot and see what happens.. thats about the last thing i can think of that would cause it to act like it is..

 

alright a little update.. i had a chance to work on the car a little and try a few things out.. tried switching the tps wiring like i mentioned above and boom instant CEL. switched back and now no CEL. none what so ever just like before.. the car just will not idle and it is really sluggish. heres a small video. its not the greastest quality but you can hear what its doing. it sounds like its out of time to me.. it pops and cracks like its running open header but its still got the factory exhaust on it lol. the only things i can think at the moment is that its out of time, the dizzy, or some part within it is bad (which i figured that would throw a CEL ), possibly the resistor box is bad (again i figure a CEL would pop up) or maybe a big vaccum leak.. which i put a new manifold gasket on and torqued them in the right sequence.. before i did the swap the car would idle just fine, just hesitated really bad when you revved it, now it hesitates, backfires, sputters and instantly dies.. check this clip out and see what it sounds like to you guys. disregard the wiring mess. i plan to clean it all up once the car actually runs like its suppposed to..

 

oh yeah in the vid it sounds like really bad metal to metal contact.. its not, its just how loud it sputters and pops.. its running a little rich too..havent figured that out either.

 

check the timing. also its way easier to just depin and repin then to cut and solder.

 

It sounds to me like your injector connectors are wired in the wrong order. I know it may sound dumb but when I first did an MPFI swap I got the order reversed, the TPS wires were reversed, and the new wires going to the SI dizzy and the IACV were a bit loose. Once the injectors were wired right the car would stay on but had a lope at idle. I took it out for a spin and the reversed TPS would make the fuel cut off close to redline. Fixed that and everything seemed fine except for the idle. Once the IACV wire was fixed the car idled smoothly. Lastly, the loose wires at the dizzy eventually caused me to get stranded, after all was fixed the car ran smooth. What I learned from all this was to solder all my connections.

 

Your problem, I dont think will be solved by random answers/guesses on here, electrical is kind of a pain in the *** like that. My suggestion would be to get a wiring diagram of the vehical, go pin to pin of every wire you have modified and check continuity to its designated sensor. Here is a cheatsheet I peiced together from various writeups/troubleshooting:
b10-c1 leftovers
b12-c2 leftovers
b2-b10
b11-b12
c1-run to engine bay (blue/green) distributer
c2-run to engine bay (blue/yellow) distributer
a3-run to engine bay (injector 2)
a7-run to engine bay (injector 4)
b2 leftovers-cut hanging
a3 leftovers-cut hanging
a7 leftovers-cut hanging
on engine harness:
yellow wire from green injector plug goes to injector 1
red wire from brown injector plug goes to injector 3
combine black/yellow from dx injectors to black/yellow on resistor box
I hope this helps, good luck
-Jason

 

alrighty, well here's a bit of an update. i pulled the motor apart yesterday and retimed it and replaced the HG. double checked through all my wiring (EVEN THERE WAS NO CEL TO BEGIN WITH) and tightened it all back up.. fired it up, still backfiring and popping like a son of a bitch and wouldnt idle. just would instantly die unless you gave it some gas and held it. next i pulled the dizzy and replaced the cap and rotor. fired up, wah la, no more popping and backfiring at idle or on a rev, however still wouldnt idle.. fired it up and decided to go for a drive up the street.. as soon as i put a load on it, sputter sputter die.. i had to practically launch it at 4500 rpms to get it to move. on to today, sourced a new dizzy and swapped it on.. again, no backfiring when revving it in nuetral, let off the gas, and it dies.. so i start pulling vaccum hoses.. pull the vaccum hose that runs from the front of the manifold to the the diapham thing right on the throttle body and instantly the revs go up to 1000-1500 and stay.. wooo... idle problem solved for the minute.. now it starts, runs, and idles.. now to a few bad things.. tried to pull it out and drive it, and its still doing the same thing. absolutely no power.. just bogs. again i had to launch it practically to get it going down the hill fast enough to get back in my driveway. it revs OK in nuetral, got a slight hesitation to it down from idle to about 2k but smoothens out after.. it just falls flat on its face when you put it under a load.. and on top of that, its running pig rich.. like you can smell gas enough that your eyes burn.. the only check engine light ive gotten is CEL 1 which is o2. it was running really rich before i did the mpfi swap though, enough it was blowing unburnt gas out of the exhaust.. its not doing that now, just smells pig rich... so with that said, im about out of ideas for now. the wiring is 100 percent dead on.. if it wasnt, from what i have gathered from the searches ive done on here i would def. have a CEL. if the tps was backwards, id have one.. i know when i switch them from where i have them now, i get one, so i know im right. same with the distributor.. the injectors are wired with the si plugs with the brown/red plug on cylinder 1, red/red plug on cyl. 2, light blue/red on cyl 3 and yellow/red on cyl. 4.. with wires coming from the ecu directly to 2 and 4 i think..my only thought on the injectors is that i would be getting a CEL if they were wired wrong too.. at least thats the answers my search yielded.. so, im open to suggestions. anything simple to try? prior history before i did the mpfi swap, the car had a hesitation to begin with and idled perfect, and blew out gas, so i guess im back to where i started with it.. lol.. i need a few...

 

any early morning suggestions before i go rip into it again?

 

quick edit after messing around some more. i went back through some of the wiring and solders some connections and made sure all was good, and that fixed some of the stumble problem when blipping the throttle at idle.. however its still running PIG RICH!! its smoking a ton when you rev it and it just smells like raw unburnt gas.. still stumbles really bad when its under power as well.. stumbles really bad in first gear to even pull out as well as when i go to pull up my hill and back in the garage, i pretty much have to get going down the hill pretty fast to get it back up my hill.. its just not making any power at all. also i pulled the plugs... all are black in color. no oil buildup or anything, not wet, just black.. guessing from being so rich. so ive replaced so far: headgasket, distributor... im lost as to where to go next, maybe fuel filter? injectors? regulator? something has got to be causing it to be really rich.. it was doing the same thing previously when the car was still running DPFI... any clues?


Modified by singleslamwonderman at 8:26 AM 8/27/2008


Modified by singleslamwonderman at 2:29 PM 8/27/2008

 

-check/replace map sensor
-check replace vacume hose going to map sensor
-check/replace injectors

 

replaced map sensor and vaccum hose with a spare i had from a new d series motor.. its still running a tad rich, but its not blowing blue and white smoke everywhere and burning my eyes out now.. still stumbles a little bit when you rev it and when you put it under a load, still wants to die.. thinking maybe ill double check the timing and replace the o2 since im getting a code for it all of a sudden. hopefully i can drive the 100 horse tire burning mpfi'd blue terror soon.. i miss not having 40 mpg

 

you got a code 1 (o2 sensor) because your air/fuel mixture was off, not because your o2 was bad. your o2 on the otherhand me be bad now or malfunctioning after running it rich like that. post up pics/check the tips of your sparkplugs. but i agree you should double check your timing
also, just out of curiousity check the voltage on your TPS. (.5v closed~4.5v wot)
C7+ (TPS)
C1- (GRN)


Modified by TheCheeseWedge at 12:26 AM 8/29/2008

 

double checked the timing, found all three marks and set it properly. im guessing since i had all of that right that the timing belt is on right and not a tooth off. from what i read, if its a tooth off you wont see any marks.. least thats not my problem. now on to sensors i guess. this is so frustrating.

 

still no dice... im beginning to think that the problem could be in the motor. i have yet to do a compression test because i dont have the tools needed to but the car starts and runs ok, it just has that hesitation when you give it gas, and it bogs so horrible when you put it in gear and put even a little bit of a load on it. it falls flat on its face. so far i dont think there isnt anything i havent touched under the hood. all the wiring is right. swapped map sensors, checked timing. checked injectors, new dizzy, new plugs, new wires, two separate ecu's, new fuel filter, new head gasket. when i picked the car up the original owner said the tensioner went out and that was the orgional prob. he had it replaced and then it started running rediculously rich, ie spitting unburnt drops of gas out of the tail pipe. even after swapping from dpfi to mpfi, im really still getting the same issue. running rich, although not as bad now, and hesitation. is it possible it could have bent valves? i've read a few things saying its a possibility. i just have no way of checking and i need this car to run like yesterday..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by singleslamwonderman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still no dice... im beginning to think that the problem could be in the motor. i have yet to do a compression test because i dont have the tools needed to but the car starts and runs ok, it just has that hesitation when you give it gas, and it bogs so horrible when you put it in gear and put even a little bit of a load on it. it falls flat on its face. so far i dont think there isnt anything i havent touched under the hood. all the wiring is right. swapped map sensors, checked timing. checked injectors, new dizzy, new plugs, new wires, two separate ecu's, new fuel filter, new head gasket. when i picked the car up the original owner said the tensioner went out and that was the orgional prob. he had it replaced and then it started running rediculously rich, ie spitting unburnt drops of gas out of the tail pipe. even after swapping from dpfi to mpfi, im really still getting the same issue. running rich, although not as bad now, and hesitation. is it possible it could have bent valves? i've read a few things saying its a possibility. i just have no way of checking and i need this car to run like yesterday.. </TD></TR></TABLE>


my personal solution when im at my witts end is to take it to a shop. make a list of everything that you checked how you checked it parts replaced ect so they dont just say"maybe this maybe that" and charge you an hour when you have done it. $80 diagnostic is worth the real life second opinion imo

 

lol i wish it were that simple around here.. the only shop i have close would look at me like i spoke spanish if i told them i converted a honda to multi point fuel injection from dual point. now if were a carbed, cammed, v8 yeah, i'd be covered

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by singleslamwonderman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol i wish it were that simple around here.. the only shop i have close would look at me like i spoke spanish if i told them i converted a honda to multi point fuel injection from dual point. now if were a carbed, cammed, v8 yeah, i'd be covered </TD></TR></TABLE>

**** man im sorry, hmm. yeah i guess compression test is left?