hey yall i was doing a google on the base power output from the B16 and B18, why does the B16(a,b) series make more power than the b18(a,b,)??? does the vtec make that much more difference??? would it be worth getting a b16B or go with the b18c1(gsr)

 

it is the stoke a b18 or ls engine puts down more torque than a vtec motor because of the longer stroke of the piston,which also accounts for the lower redline.b16s have no torque because the piston travel is minimal compared to the ls or the b20.Putting a vtec head on a non vtec block makes you have the best of both worlds long stroke and vtec!!!But with that setup you cant rev the **** out of the motor because of the piston speed longer stroke faster piston speed.if it was me i would rather have a b20 with no hp but high torque..then later on slap the vtec head on it and have fun.

 

Go with a GSR. B16's are straight garbage except for the heads.

Now if you really want to get crazy and see some nice power. GSR block with ITR or B16a?(not sure with b16) Pistons with a .25 oversize. Matched up with the b16 head. some CTR(civic type R) cams. Port, polish, valve job, and maybe an intake manifold. Prolly just the type r one if you can get your hands on it. and you will have a pretty nasty little set up. This is very similar to what I am going to build.

If your going to shell out the money Do it right and get that extra 20-40 ft tq you wont be sorry.

 

i think hondaman idea was a good choice for me... its a DD and dont need crazy power just highway speed and get up and go power

 

Ls vtec's and b20 vtecs. Just are not as reliable as a straight up GSR or Poor Mans Type R with a few basic modifications. Its a fact of life. Plus there are so many more B18c1 and B16 a/b parts everywhere online, and here in the forums. B20's are so overrated. A very moderately built GSR or GSR/b16head hybrid are able to put down more horsepower and just a few ft tq less than a b20.

And if your really worried about gas mileage. A solid tuner should be able to help you maximize your gas mileage and horsepower out of a nice setup like i have mentioned. and with the setup im talking about you get to keep your Dignity in staying with an Integra motor in an Integra.

And if you want to Autox or hit the drag every now and again your car will have some nuts to do so.

 

what makes it less reliable??

 

its a fact of life that people who build b20vtec engines and ls/vtec engines might skimp on parts or be slack.there is no reason why a b20 vtec or lsv can not be reliable.I know many people who put together these setups and run them for a long time with the stock redline.Usually the unreliability comes from people revving them to the 8000 rpm redline.the stock rods and pistons are not made to rev this high.but for 600 dollars you can buy a complete b20 and have more torque than any vtec engine puts down in stock form.kinda a no brainer.B20 is the way to go!!a gsr engine is gonna cost you alot more then a b20 and a b16 head and a oil line kit..but if you dont know how to swap heads then it can get expensive.bottom line either way you go it would be stupid to go with the b16. it will feel fun only when its in vtec and it still wont go anywhere.id be willing to bet that the b20 without any mods on a b16 trans would outrun a stock b16 in a similar chassis.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Horseofcourse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go with a GSR. B16's are straight garbage except for the heads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Horseofcourse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ls vtec's and b20 vtecs. Just are not as reliable as a straight up GSR or Poor Mans Type R with a few basic modifications. Its a fact of life.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, you really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

The B16A has an interesting combination of internal dimensions that basically equate to: internal components of the exact same quality and strength, a shorter deck height, and a less severe rod angle. Put simply the shorter deck makes for more stable sleeves, and the less severe rod angle means less lateral stress on the cylinder walls. Couple these with the exact same build quality and you get a motor that takes abuse surprisingly well in stock form, as the entire bottom end is notably more stable, and all else being equal generally tends to outlast it's larger brethren.

LSV's get a bad rap from a lot of people because there were probably a thousand of them assembled and accidentally blown up before it became common knowledge that you absolutely have to upgrade the rod bolts. B18C1's get a good rap because there are so many unmolested ones that seem to run forever. That said, if you take a well built LSV that's been done right versus a well built B18C1 with the same or very similar mods, you won't see a lot of difference in reliability. It's pointless to compare engine reliability unless you eliminate a few variables.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpimichael02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what makes it less reliable??</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is dependent on the parts used and the builder. Also how well was the tune after the entire build.

 

LSV or B16b for DD

 

I would go with a B16/B18C over an LSV. I absolutely loved the B16 in my 99Si. Added a Drag II turbo kit to the stock motor and ran a very conservative 7psi boost map for 242hp/167tq @ the wheels. Better than an LSV. I also daily drove every day for over a year on it with 0 issues. I'm not saying LSV's put together right cant't be reliable. I'm just saying solid B16/B18C's can be had for cheap and you don't have to hassle with a hybrid setup and changing parts and dropping $$ into the extra work. The money can then be spent elsewhere on power adders off the bat. You can't get more reliable than OEM Honda. Again, I'm not LSV bashing, I've even considered and LS bottom end on my GSR, but in the end I"m sticking all GSR and building off what I've got. My .02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow, you really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

The B16A has an interesting combination of internal dimensions that basically equate to: internal components of the exact same quality and strength, a shorter deck height, and a less severe rod angle. Put simply the shorter deck makes for more stable sleeves, and the less severe rod angle means less lateral stress on the cylinder walls. Couple these with the exact same build quality and you get a motor that takes abuse surprisingly well in stock form, as the entire bottom end is notably more stable, and all else being equal generally tends to outlast it's larger brethren.

LSV's get a bad rap from a lot of people because there were probably a thousand of them assembled and accidentally blown up before it became common knowledge that you absolutely have to upgrade the rod bolts. B18C1's get a good rap because there are so many unmolested ones that seem to run forever. That said, if you take a well built LSV that's been done right versus a well built B18C1 with the same or very similar mods, you won't see a lot of difference in reliability. It's pointless to compare engine reliability unless you eliminate a few variables.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you do realize we are talking about all that with the main idea of Power and torque right? B16's are a good motor im not saying they arnt. But compared to most of the 1.8l motors they just dont put out the same numbers or even close to the torque of an ls or gsr.


Modified by Horseofcourse at 1:42 PM 8/18/2008

 

K20

 

K24!

or the RDX turbo engine...

if i had the money

 

Well, Honda motors just aren't gonna make loads of torque. You'll have to accept that. But keep in mind, torque is what gets you moving initially, but horsepower is what keeps you going at speed. That's how Honda's are quick.. they take their horsepower and stretch it over a longer powerband than a large displacement, long stroke motor. It's just a different method of going from point a to b.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Horseofcourse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B16's are straight garbage except for the heads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Horseofcourse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B16's are a good motor im not saying they arnt.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If that's the case your double talk isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Horseofcourse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you do realize we are talking about all that with the main idea of Power and torque right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, horsepower and torque should never be the main idea. Horsepower and torque within the scope of several other major goals are often important if performance is indeed the desired end result, but again they should never be the main idea. Budget and reliability requirements are generally the main ideas and finding power that falls into the constraints laid down by those two ideas is sometimes important, but not always. We don't know the OP's desired end result, budget restrictions, or driving style.

When you make assumptions and litter the forum with double talk it makes you look stupid. Please work on this a bit.

 

op if you want a daily driver,it should not really matter what engine has the most horsepower,i drive a civic vx with a b16 as a daily,hardly get on vtec because theres no need too,its my daily commuter and has been till reliable now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If that's the case your double talk isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

No, horsepower and torque should never be the main idea. Horsepower and torque within the scope of several other major goals are often important if performance is indeed the desired end result, but again they should never be the main idea. Budget and reliability requirements are generally the main ideas and finding power that falls into the constraints laid down by those two ideas is sometimes important, but not always. We don't know the OP's desired end result, budget restrictions, or driving style.

When you make assumptions and litter the forum with double talk it makes you look stupid. Please work on this a bit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whatever you say chief

 

yea my engine budget is around 4k, needs as a daily driver- highway speeds up to 60-90mph(4-5k rpm) city speeds 35-45mph(never above 3500 rpm), my LS has 1 ball and i need an engine that has two *****...lol i think i def gonna go with the b16a- just cause its a vtec a cheap.... and its probly better on gas speacially with no PS...hhahha... i like the feel better ...

thanks for your help guys..

 

B18 5 spd will fit ona b16a correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpimichael02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18 5 spd will fit ona b16a correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are indeed correct, sir.

 

Theres a very informative thread here about LS/B20 crank's and B18c1 blocks. I believe it to be the best of both worlds as far as B-series frankenstiens can go. They did have some issues with the oil plugs, but I beleive the problem can be fixed. Some suggestions here might be more cost effective though

 

k20 cough....k20 coughhhh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpimichael02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea my engine budget is around 4k, needs as a daily driver- highway speeds up to 60-90mph(4-5k rpm) city speeds 35-45mph(never above 3500 rpm), my LS has 1 ball and i need an engine that has two *****...lol i think i def gonna go with the b16a- just cause its a vtec a cheap.... and its probly better on gas speacially with no PS...hhahha... i like the feel better ...

thanks for your help guys..</TD></TR></TABLE>is this going in an integra? if so yo will be pissed. trust me. that b16 is too small and has zero tq. to push an integra. why not make another thread asking who has a stock b16 in a integra? i bet they all say it sux. THE REASON YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR LS IS SLOW IS THE LS TRANNY!!!!!!!!!! just change your tranny to a gsr tranny or b16 before you do anything. you will need one anyway. it will feel like you just added. it is the first major upgrade you should do before giving up on the b18. imagine how much extra gas you will have to give it to push a heavy integra with a b16.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ivan93egreppin210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is this going in an integra? if so yo will be pissed. trust me. that b16 is too small and has zero tq. to push an integra. why not make another thread asking who has a stock b16 in a integra? i bet they all say it sux. THE REASON YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR LS IS SLOW IS THE LS TRANNY!!!!!!!!!! just change your tranny to a gsr tranny or b16 before you do anything. you will need one anyway. it will feel like you just added. it is the first major upgrade you should do before giving up on the b18. imagine how much extra gas you will have to give it to push a heavy integra with a b16. </TD></TR></TABLE>

PM;d