I know what the difference is, but is the LS hybrid really that much better than just a B16 engine? And if so, how much more does the LS/Vtec swap cost compared to just a B16 swap? And who in here actually has a LS/Vtec swap in their 2nd gen Civic or CRX, and if so, any dyno numbers?

 

b16 = 1.6 L
LS/VTEC = 1.8L

B20 = 2.0 L

That is a big difference.

B16 = reliable power
LS/Vtec = Mickey mousy power
B20 = Reliable tourque

B20 = New motor
B18 = fairly new
B16 = old

B20 = my choice

You can always add a VTEc head to a b20 block a year after your swap

 

b16 a work of art perfect rod stroke ratio lsvtec JUNK very poor RS and teh b20 vtec still junk will have problems like the lsvtec not worth the $$ or the hassle

 

LS/Vtec = Mickey mousy power <--what does that mean?

 

here's a thought, destroked B20.
1.8L, same RS as B16, read revving to 8K+ and still have more torque.
stan

 

if u destroke a b20 to a 1.8 its just gonna be a b18 ??? but i dont see anywhere near a 1.74 rs not likely....

and teh b20 and b18 dont rev high for a reason RS they are imperfect....ill be one to say it the b16 is a better motor even if there is more torque from the lsvtec its not gonna be reliable anyway u do it....build the bottom end like u say the head is not meant to be bolted on if it was so great hondas engineers that get payed to make **** woulda done it but they didnt why??? because the b18b/a arent meant to have a vtec head thats why u gotta rig a oil line up so it will work....ive seen 4 or 5 lsvtecs 2 built bottom end up and they were still race engines that didnt last forever....and im saysing race engines because u cant rely on that kinda power knowing that u could run into overheating issues oil leakage possibly just not worth it turbo a ****** b16 if u want awsome power or waste a lil money ud be wasting on build the lsvetc and build the b16 for NA it make more than a b18c1 for teh cost that teh lsvtec would cost ive thought this over for about 2 years researched watched friends....b16 is a better motor than the lsvetc or b20 vtec or u could waste the $$ and do a b19c5 cause the $$ ur gona spend is in the neighboorhood of 5 grand on internals ask phattwhippin_crx he has a whole thing on the lsvec on his page it explains the RS for those who dont understand

 

one has torque (lsvtec) and the other doesnt (b16)

 

ls/vtec does not equal mickey mouse power. as stated above, if you take the time to research and find out how to make the b18a rev well enough to make use of the vtec head, and build it right. your problems will be limited. this has been said a thousand times so its simply a matter of opinion.

in the case of which motor is better, you have to ask yourself what you are doing with the car. auto-X, daily driver... i would have to say the b16a is the easiest/most reliable setup. but if you want something to run the quarter, weekend warrior, street terror etc.. you will have to invest a ton of cash to make the b16a a contender. the ls/crv/vtec is a better option, but based on the parts you choose, it can be expensive.

basically a bone stock ls/vtec puts out the same numbers as a bone stock b18c1 (the dyno sheets are on here somewhere) if your willing to chance a bone stock ls/vtec its definitely cheaper than a b18c1, and a lot more powerful than a b16a.

and if you go turbo, then basically get whatever you can for cheap(ls/b16a/etc...) then save the rest of the cash for your turbo setup, and the forged internals you'll require later. hth

 

Anything you do to your motor to make more power is going to decrease reliability. If you build it right it will be just as reliable as any B16 with equal power. If you havent had first hand experience with something, you shouldn't bad mouth it. My Ls/vtec never gave me any problems and Ill probably own another one when I finish school.

 

Every engine can be prepped for maximum performance but everybody wants maximum power against the lowest cost.. and that does NOT work

 

i have been in friend's cars with cammed B16's and i have ridden in an LS/Vtec car with b16 pistons, fully balanced bottom end, headwork, CTR cams, all bolt on's, etc. the ls vtec car definitely kicks some ***, i don't think it would pull on the cammed B16. this is due to the CTR cams not being as aggressive as the Crower 2's. my point is that while the ls vtec is fun, it is not a good idea. there are no oil jets in any non vtec block, these are to spray oil onto the wrist pins. with high rpm's, there is a lot of heat and friction involved, and i think the wrist pins are going to be overworked beyond the levels an LS should see. a very bad combination is the hybrid turbo. this will drop oil pressure levels even further and make it more likely to fail! do yourself the favor, buy a VTEC bottom end from the start, preferably a B18C because it makes no sense to buy a C5 if you are reworking it all anyway.

 

I thought these could be mounted on most engines, yes?

The 1st gen B16 does not have them either

 

Not so....the first gen B16 DOES have the oil squirters (I just tore down a 1 gen B16, trust me the quirters were in there). What is DOES NOT have is a girdle...




[Modified by ccjb100, 11:51 AM 7/23/2002]

 

Could there be differences between JDM/EDM spec?

 

the thing is LS/VTEC was not ment to be nor was CRV-Tec. however the B16 was meant to be. therfore it answers your q's

do either straight b20 swap or b16 swap.

 

Well, as far as the mechanical parts of the motor, no I don't think so because I was just looking at the UK CRX workshop manual (VTEC supplement, as found here: http://www.hondacrx.co.uk/) and it shows the oil squirters there as part of the oiling system.



[Modified by ccjb100, 1:13 PM 7/23/2002]

 

Ok, i'm starting to get an idea of the difference. A B16 is more reliable cause it is from one engine while the LS/Vtec is less reliable cause it's a hybrid.

But what about costs? Are they about the same? I'm guessing they would be.

 

no because in order to be semi reliable its gonna take a **** load of $$ to build teh lsvtec correctly imo its not worth it....if it was id do it right now i have most of teh parts needed

 

if you destroke the B20 with the B16 crank, using b16 rods and B20 pistons you will get 1.8L, but it will not be a B18, it will retain the B16 RS and will get it's 1.8L from the 85mm bore. think of it as a OEM massive overbore of a B16.
stan