<U>Question:</U>
ref: 92-95 civic hatchback

Are there any diffrences in mounting points from a '95 Si power steering rack and pinion to a non-power rack & pinion?

will be attempting to remove the power steering rack & pinion unit out of our '95 si and installing a non-power unit from a CX/DX model.

I will be replacing the internals of the CX non power steering rack & pinion unit with a new Quaife QSR.

simply questioning mounting it...
I've been recieving mixed messages from various sources. (wow, that's a surprise. LOL!)

Anyone here perform this swap?
if so, is this item recomended?
any advice &/or suggestions would help.
diagrams are a plus.

<U>please respond with US civic 92-95 related info. </U>
because there are tons of info for the EF here already...

thanks.

 

cricket.. cricket...

 

Well..., performed the swap successfully and in the event that anyone should search for info regarding this item, here is what we experienced/concluded :

mounting points are the same. : )
however, the rubber bushing and bracket are slightly smaller on non-power racks as opposed to power versions.
2nd, the two share different boots.

If you are non-power steering '92-'95 civic (EG), this swap should be performed fairly easily without the need of purchasing other parts.

If you are power steering '92-'95 civic (EG), you will require:
1) a complete non-power steering rack and pinion assembly.
2) The non-power steering bootS. Yes, more than one. (I believe the Honda parts dealers have them listed & diagramed as three pieces.)
3) The non-power steering mounting bracket and rubber bushing. (the rubber bushing should already be included on the rack itself.)

Our Review:
There is a slight difference in over all handeling/steering. (feels great on curvy freeway on-ramps and off ramps.)
In a competitive setting, fatigue is a huge factor. Reducing hand movements will definately be a plus with this unit.

Overall, is it worth it?
Probably NOT for the average daily driver.
(especialy going from power to non-power.)
However, for the enthusiast searching for the sports car feel. Then YES!!!

...will be testing this unit in September at willow springs.

in the L.A. area, stop by for a free demo. We'll take you around the block...

 

That's a very cool install you did. How much for all the parts to do this swap? I imagine you can get this at the junkyard from a pick? Also can't you just take the p/s pump out from the original rack and pinion and install some sort of rack and pinion lubricator?

 

How fast is the rack? Why not just install an Integra rack and be done?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psycheus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's a very cool install you did. How much for all the parts to do this swap? </TD></TR></TABLE>

$239.00 for the physical Quaife unit which replaces your oem non power steering internals. I paid $90 for a freshly rebuilt rack & pinion with new Quaife internals. (went to axle/rack & pinion shop in City of Industry. ABC Axles - plug LOL!)
Labor swaped myself... $0.00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psycheus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Also can't you just take the p/s pump out from the original rack and pinion and install some sort of rack and pinion lubricator?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I went with what Quaife/Autotech reps suggested. Purchase a non-power and swap out old original power steering unit. Sounds @$$ back-wards for the daily driven honda civic enthusiats. but for road course racing, there are advantages.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tunes12 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How fast is the rack? Why not just install an Integra rack and be done? </TD></TR></TABLE>

FAST? not sure I understand...
BUT!, I can tell you that it is VERY HARD to turn at a complete stop....
(not practicle for daily driven)
I haven't driven an EG with the integra rack, therefore I have no basis for comparison. However, according to Quaife specs the gear ratio is tighter than that of a stock DC2.

<U>From my own personal experience</U> I can tell you this, The Civics handeling on highway/freeway on ramps & off ramps at higher speeds have GREATLY improved. (it also helps having the LSD tranny.)
This improvement comes at a cost. That being losing the power steering feature & difficulty with parallel parking. But don't let this discourage you from trying it for yourself If you are building a road course, time attack, hpde, nasa, scca, etc etc.. race car.

It does work, and if any are interested you are more than welcome to check out our car in person & go for a spin.

 

The GSR/ITR rack is shorter then the Quaife hardware.

I simply swapped a GSR rack into my hatch, and run a manual steering looped setup. For HPDE I love it, though I could imagine fatigue would become an issue for anyone running endurance races.

I dont mean to rain on your parade since you already purchased it and went throught he work, but for those of you searching for info, the OEM GSR/ITR racks are a fraction of the price, less work, and shorter ratio then the quaife.

The DC2 rack is 2.98 LTL, 16:1 ratio and about 50 bucks
The Quaife rack is 3.25 LTL and about 240 bucks


Modified by Eyal 951 at 2:21 AM 8/24/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Quaife rack is 3.25 LTL and about 240 bucks
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Quaife quote the EG LTL at 3.25, but someone needs to report the <U>actual</U> LTL. I know my EF Quaife was supposed to be 2.8 LTL, and in fact it's more like 2.35-2.4.

 

<U>pics and videos ultimately nail the coffin shut around here.</U>
hell, I've even offered people to go for a spin before making the same purchase.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I simply swapped a GSR rack into my hatch, and run a manual steering looped setup. </TD></TR></TABLE>
^ this info is useless without specifying which year and chassis style hatch you're refering too.
because as stated above, it is not as simple as you may have described. something as insignificant as a "C" clamp type mout can delay your install.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GSR/ITR rack is shorter then the Quaife hardware.
I dont mean to rain on your parade since you already purchased it and went throught he work, but for those of you searching for info, the OEM GSR/ITR racks are a fraction of the price, less work, and shorter ratio then the quaife.
The DC2 rack is 2.98 LTL, 16:1 ratio and about 50 bucks
The Quaife rack is 3.25 LTL and about 240 bucksModified by Eyal 951 at 2:21 AM 8/24/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

No,.. no,.. you're not raining on anyones parade. In FACT, you are simply reinforcing a strong point I deeply stress with other enthusiasts that are searching for tech info on such related sites....

<U>MOST OF THE INFO IS BASED ON SPECULATION! NOT FACT!</U>

...and that's why I wanted to simply post my own personal experience in the event that someone was considering to purchase and/or perform the same swap.

...Unless someone has physicaly performed both swaps and have tested both racks, I'd say this case remians open untill further notice.

IMO, quaife is a reputable name and produce well made products.
This swap, FOR ME, was an improvement over my stock '95 Si set up.
..and that's all I can say about this subject matter.

I have no basis for comparison with a GSR rack and pinion set up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JEM MotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><U>pics and videos ultimately nail the coffin shut around here.</U>
hell, I've even offered people to go for a spin before making the same purchase.


^ this info is useless without specifying which year and chassis style hatch you're refering too.
because as stated above, it is not as simple as you may have described. something as insignificant as a "C" clamp type mout can delay your install.


No,.. no,.. you're not raining on anyones parade. In FACT, you are simply reinforcing a strong point I deeply stress with other enthusiasts that are searching for tech info on such related sites....

<U>MOST OF THE INFO IS BASED ON SPECULATION! NOT FACT!</U>

...and that's why I wanted to simply post my own personal experience in the event that someone was considering to purchase and/or perform the same swap.

...Unless someone has physicaly performed both swaps and have tested both racks, I'd say this case remians open untill further notice.

IMO, quaife is a reputable name and produce well made products.
This swap, FOR ME, was an improvement over my stock '95 Si set up.
..and that's all I can say about this subject matter.

I have no basis for comparison with a GSR rack and pinion set up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Granted I could have been more specific on the application, though a quick glance in my signature would have solved that for you.

95 hatch. The rack comes from any DC2. 94-01.

Because i put a power steering rack on a manual rack subframe I had to spend an extra 5-10 min with the C clamp on the vise to reshape it slightly, otherwise direct bolt on. (good time to change steering back bushings fyi)

Unfortunately, the numbers don't get any more qualifying. The #'s ARE fact, published both by honda, and by Quaife. (to the poster who is speculating quaife is actually shorter then publish, give me a break)

While I have not tested both, I looked at the numbers for both. The numbers aren't speculation my friend.


Modified by Eyal 951 at 11:29 AM 8/26/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Granted I could have been more specific on the application, though a quick glance in my signature would have solved that for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It still doesn't conclude squat! my point being, the difference between a CX, DX, VX or SI <U>IS SIGNIFICANT!</U> when performing this swap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
.....I had to spend an extra 5-10 min with the C clamp on the vise to reshape it slightly, otherwise direct bolt on. (good time to change steering back bushings fyi) </TD></TR></TABLE>

<U> IMPOSSIBLE! YES! I AM CALLING YOU OUT ON THIS! </U>
PICTURES! POST UP OR SHUT UP!


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
<U>While I have not tested both, </U> I looked at the numbers for both. The numbers aren't speculation my friend. Modified by Eyal 951 at 11:29 AM 8/26/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

^nuff said. LOL!

I simply wanted to post my views and opinions of this one particular item in the event that anyone else cared to perform the same swap. HELPFULL information (although very rare and scarce on such related sites) can at times be found on this site with a little searching.

yet it always seems someone has a need for the final word.
and if so, fine! it's yours. YOU WIN!



...but that's why so many professionals have given up posting reviews of ACTUAL events/swaps on forums such as these because of an over qualified sony playstation gran tourismo certified mechanic posting up unconclusive, unsupporting and most importantly speculated misleading useless information.

 

This isnt about the last word, or childish games, or posting pics for proof. I said I did it, it happened. Lots of other users have as well, its searchable, and its proven. ( think I even have a quick how to regarding looping the rack with an OEM clutch resevoir as a breather posted about it with pics of the rack in my car)

You obv didnt want to take our word for it and spent 240 instead of 50. I didn't post for your benefit, I posted for the benefit of all others trying to enjoy this sport on a budget, and finding this thread in the archives. I've been there, done that and its nice to share what I (and many of us) already know on this subject so that RR/AutoX forum members can benefit from it in future searches. The difference in price between the Quaife setup and the DC2 setup is the entry fee for a track day. On top of that, the numbers prove that the rack is shorter.

its like asking for photos to prove 2+2=4.

Edit: here is the thread, the pics aren't as relevent to this topic as I remember, but worth posting up: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1745529

I've accomplished what I wanted to in this thread, and that was to let people know that the GSR rack is an excellent substitute to the Quaife setup. Unless people have questions for me, there is no need to keep this thread going.

 

I won't even begin to rip someone a new one on the whole clamp thing... LOL!
and that's exactly WTF I've been talking about. misleading, jimmy-rigged BS.
Reshaping a non-powering steering rack and pinion clamp to fit a power steering version.... yeah right!


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This isnt about the last word, or childish games, </TD></TR></TABLE>

ummmmm,... ok

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You obv didnt want to Edit: here is the thread, the pics aren't as relevent to this topic as I remember, but worth posting up: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1745529</TD></TR></TABLE>

WTF?!^^^


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've accomplished what I wanted to in this thread, and that was to let people know that the GSR rack is an excellent substitute to the Quaife setup. Unless people have questions for me, there is no need to keep this thread going. </TD></TR></TABLE>

tah dahhh....

 

Lets apply YOUR theory. Don't talk about it if you haven't tried it.

Slightly reshaping that clamp is nowhere near jimmy rigged. After all both racks are round, just a slightly different size. If you looked at it, you wouldn't be able to tell. Its held up excellently for many many laps on mult race tracks and over 30,000 street miles. Its a commonly performed modification.

Your obnoxious, I'm out.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JEM MotorSports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I won't even begin to rip someone a new one on the whole clamp thing... LOL!
and that's exactly WTF I've been talking about. misleading, jimmy-rigged BS.
Reshaping a non-powering steering rack and pinion clamp to fit a power steering version.... yeah right!


ummmmm,... ok

WTF?!^^^


tah dahhh.... </TD></TR></TABLE>



Modified by Eyal 951 at 10:51 PM 8/26/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The #'s ARE fact, published both by honda, and by Quaife. (to the poster who is speculating quaife is actually shorter then publish, give me a break)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Consider yourself on a break !

It is a fact that my Quaife gear in my 89 Civic STD rack yield a 2.35-2.4 turns lock to lock, and not the 2.83 that they advertise. Until such time as someone who has these parts in their EG rack posts their findings, and actual turns LTL, I will say that there's a chance that it is faster than 3.25 (and maybe slower too).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">....If you looked at it, you wouldn't be able to tell.Modified by Eyal 951 at 10:51 PM 8/26/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

ummm,... I know the name of a good optometrist if you need it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Its held up excellently for many many laps on mult race tracks and over 30,000 street miles.
Modified by Eyal 951 at 10:51 PM 8/26/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well,.. as long as you are comfortable with that. Thats great. I prefer piece of mind. thanx.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your obnoxious, I'm out.
Modified by Eyal 951 at 10:51 PM 8/26/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

THAT'S THE 2ND TIME YOU'VE STATED THAT YOU'RE DONE. LOL!!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ...Unless people have questions for me, there is no need to keep this thread going. </TD></TR></TABLE>


I like this guy... he's funny and persistent. I hope his persistence translates over to his driving skills.
Who knows maybe I'll bump into him @ willow springs.. cough cough*
Better yet, pay him a visit in Calabasas.

...Yeah, you'd be surprised boy.

 

All he did was post a cheaper alternative. The numbers are posted by both manufactures so what is so hard to understand?


Oh yeah, if you run a tuning/performance part company or are the repesenative of one I damn sure wouldnt trust you to work or order parts for me with this childish argument that you keep posting into.

I mean seriously, who the hell hasnt bought a part or did a custom install and not had to fab something to get it to work?


Jesus titty %$#@ing christ grow up.

 

to mirror all the people that know something in this thread....

since 2001, i have run a DC2 rack in my 94 si. bolt in (if you have a p/s subframe, no messing with "rigging" parts). faster and less fatigueing (sp?) then running a quaife in the non power setup. YES, i have driven both. DC2 w/ p/s smokes the quaife setup. and no, i do not play playstation....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to mirror all the people that know something in this thread....

since 2001, i have run a DC2 rack in my 94 si. bolt in (if you have a p/s subframe, no messing with "rigging" parts). faster and less fatigueing (sp?) then running a quaife in the non power setup. YES, i have driven both. DC2 w/ p/s smokes the quaife setup. and no, i do not play playstation....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exact same setup as ^^^ in my 95 si and it was in fact easy as pie and works like a charm...

 

i gotta question i was wondering if it was possible to put a power steering rack on a non power steering one. i have a 92 civic hatch manual steering and the rack is messed up the only available rack and pinion is a power steering one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ron_eg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i gotta question i was wondering if it was possible to put a power steering rack on a non power steering one. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, it is a bolt in if you use a p/s subframe. if you do not get a p/s subframe, you will have to fabricate a bracket for the rack.

 

I have nothing to add regarding the Quaife unit other than I have been considering one for my 95' CX.

I do feel inclined to post some info regarding the swap between manual/power steering racks.

I have performed a power steering conversion in my 92' VX rally car (went from manual to PS).

I sourced a PS rack from an ITR and found that I needed a PS subframe as well. Regardless of what has been said here, I could not modify the non-ps mounting bracket/non-ps subframe to work with the ps rack.

If it can/has been done, so be it. I could not make it work in a manner that I felt comfortable (meaning safe) with. The ps rack itself is bigger, therefore so is the mounting bracket. The bolt holes on the ps subframe are also spaced out a bit more then those on the manual subframe.

Also, going from a manual car to a ps car, you must source the knuckle/u-joint that connects the steering column shaft to the rack shaft from a ps car. The splines on the rack side are bigger on a ps rack vs. a manual rack. This info was not posted anywhere in here and would prove to be a problem to anyone wanting to use a ps rack in a non-ps car.

 

I would love to tell you, but I've had one on order for 75 days and counting. If I ever get it in my hands I'll post up some pics and reviews.

 

Thank you very much for posting about this. Many of us have wondered about it.