i've been looking a lot into suspension stuff and lowering my car and have started to autox lately, and i plan on doing every autox i can get to from now on, so i'm looking for suspension that will improve my handling because thats what autox is all about. the GC/Koni Yellow sounds like a good combo but will it help improve handling in autox or is it just good for looks? and if i get custom spring rates what should they be for front/back?

btw i will still need to use this car for DD during college

EDIT: i have a 93' honda del sol with stock suspension right now >_> dunno how i forgot to list this info haha


Modified by RedRevolver at 3:29 PM 7/28/2008

 

Um, if you want to talk about performance suspensions, it might be helpful to provide information.

What car? Year and sub-model.
What class? This might limit suspension decisions.
What is your tolerance for daily use? I'm running 400/400 rates on my DC2, and its very close to my limit for daily use, and too soft (for my preferences) for auto-x...

 

oh geez haha how could i forget to list what i have. 93' honda del sol stock suspension right now. i don't know jack about spring rates so meh, but i don't mind feelin the bumps in the road if thats what your askin, keeps ya awake =P

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh geez haha how could i forget to list what i have. 93' honda del sol stock suspension right now. i don't know jack about spring rates so meh, but i don't mind feelin the bumps in the road if thats what your askin, keeps ya awake =P</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then I'm assuming ST2 class.

First mod, get a good set of tires. A killer suspension and crap tires = no fun. Falken RT-615 Azenis, the new Bridgestones (I forget the model all the fast STS cars have switched to) or equivalent.

Following that, get a beefy rear swaybar. Its a Del Slo, which means the Civic subframe tearout issue is a concern for you. Consider some form of reinforcement with the swaybar.

Koni Yellows would be an excellent choice. Tokico Illuminas would be an alternative. They behave differently, so you'll have to make a decision there after some research.

Since you don't mind running stiff rates (or think you won't at least), I would recommend somewhere in the 400 to 550 range up front, and 350 to 550 in the back. Go stiffer up front the lower you intend to run, and stiffen the rear based on what you think your tolerance for oversteer is. Keep in mind the rear spring rate will determine the ride quality more than the front, and 550 ain't gonna be fun over potholes.

Also consider either the front shock fork trick, or buying a set of GC extended upper mounts. Skip the camber kits, just lower to the appropriate camber.

 

yeah sts2 is the class i believe i would be in, i'm runnin novice right now though.
i'm trying to get money for this stuff right now but i want to be prepared cuz hopefully i'll have enough soon. would 500 front and 450 rear be pretty good you think? what do you mean by tolerance for oversteer?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah sts2 is the class i believe i would be in, i'm runnin novice right now though.
i'm trying to get money for this stuff right now but i want to be prepared cuz hopefully i'll have enough soon. would 500 front and 450 rear be pretty good you think? what do you mean by tolerance for oversteer?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're asking that (and I don't mean to be rude), then I would consider 500/400 or even 500/350 to start off with instead, especially when combined with a large rear swaybar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer

 

oh i know what oversteer is i just wasn't sure what you mean by tolerance for it, if its some technical term lol. if you mean my personal tolerance for it then i'm ok at handling it but it throws me off for sure. i'd probably be fine with a little more practice though, cuz i have to push it hard to make my car oversteer.

these are the tires i have now. i've never driven my car on any other tires since my dad bought these brand new about 6 months before i bought the car from him. i think they suck but i could be wrong since i've never had experience with what other tires feel like.

http://www.warehousetire.net/S....html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh i know what oversteer is i just wasn't sure what you mean by tolerance for it, if its some technical term lol. if you mean my personal tolerance for it then i'm ok at handling it but it throws me off for sure. i'd probably be fine with a little more practice though, cuz i have to push it hard to make my car oversteer.

these are the tires i have now. i've never driven my car on any other tires since my dad bought these brand new about 6 months before i bought the car from him. i think they suck but i could be wrong since i've never had experience with what other tires feel like.

http://www.warehousetire.net/S....html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, personal tolerance. I was in a hurry, and didn't type much of a reply.

For example, 100% stock, my Integra suffered from horrendous understeer.
Threw on a set of Azenis, and a Comptech rear swaybar, and it could create lift throttle oversteer, but it still plowed whenever the fun pedal was down. I could handle that without issue.
Went to 400/400 rates, and finally looped the car. It took me at least 4 auto-x events to get back to as fast as the stock suspension was. Now that I can drive it, I'm faster than before, and am looking for even more oversteer from my suspension. If I had jumped straight to what I want now, I would never have been able to drive the car with the skills I had then.

And those tires will be awful. However, the low grip levels might make for a good learning experience, provided you don't destroy them. Watch you wear patterns, monitor heat and pressure carefully, and they should be acceptable. I killed my OEM tires by overheating them during auto-x use, melted the tread blocks together into a pseudo-slick, and cracked the sidewalls...

 

ok well i would'nt mind more oversteer at all, i don't have very good turn in right now. what do you think would benefit me more at this point though, tires or GC/koni? cuz as much as the tires suck for autox they are still pretty much new.

oh and i have 185/60 on right now would 195/60 fit on the rims? again i dunno much lol, as much as i research stuff i still am confused by the smallest things haha

 

it depends. when do you plan on getting started. if your wait til later and your tire wear is lower then get tires. if now then get koni/gc, then tires. then rear sway and and subframe brace (very important that you get the brace!)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok well i would'nt mind more oversteer at all</TD></TR></TABLE>
Be careful what you ask for...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't have very good turn in right now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is probably entirely the fault of your tires.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you think would benefit me more at this point though, tires or GC/koni? cuz as much as the tires suck for autox they are still pretty much new.

oh and i have 185/60 on right now would 195/60 fit on the rims? again i dunno much lol, as much as i research stuff i still am confused by the smallest things haha</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tires. Tires are the best improvement over any other brake or suspension part. After all, both the brakes and suspension do everything through the tire's contact with the ground.

They're also a wear item. Do you really want to be killing your daily use tires during competition?

185/60 is rather, well, useless information, since you don't list wheel size. 185/60-14 would be a correct Civic size, so let's assume 14" OEM wheels (see what we have to guess at when you leave out information?). Those are both skinny (5.5" I believe) and heavy, wheels. I would buy a cheap set of Rota Slipstreams in a 15x7 (15x7.5 if you can find them), run 195/50-15 sized tires, and choose either Falken RT-615 Azenis, Toyo R1R, or Bridgestone RE-01R. Just swap wheels when you get to the events (its what I do). If new Rotas are too expensive for your budget, consider a used set of something cheap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They're also a wear item. Do you really want to be killing your daily use tires during competition?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is a good point. i didnt take this into consideration for my reply to the OP. so yes tires first then if you(op) can afford a set of tires and rims.

here's a good choice for cheap wheels. only 400 shipped

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NRGtechParts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry, the spoon reps only come in 15" and the offset is -38 and the weight is 12 lbs</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zero...35495

 

lol maybe i should have clarified, i wouldn't mind a tiny little bit more oversteer haha. yeah i was hoping i could get away with the 14" rims i have now but after lookin at tires theres no way i'm gettin anything in 14". i'm thinkin i'll try and find some used rims, my friend just might still have some i'm not sure. but tires would be the best you think? i've heard some good things about the Toyo R1R and that they can be used for DD too, any other opinions there?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol maybe i should have clarified, i wouldn't mind a tiny little bit more oversteer haha. yeah i was hoping i could get away with the 14" rims i have now but after lookin at tires theres no way i'm gettin anything in 14". i'm thinkin i'll try and find some used rims, my friend just might still have some i'm not sure. but tires would be the best you think? i've heard some good things about the Toyo R1R and that they can be used for DD too, any other opinions there?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have heard some good about those too but not enough feedback for me to switch to get them and im not rich so im not going to get them to "see" if i like them. make sure you dont get some heavy wheels. the ones i posted in that link are pretty light and inexpensive and also a popular style.

yes tires first because your suspension is useless without a set of good tires. tires make the most noticable difference IMO. and you dont want too much oversteer rightnow...its a big differece compared to understeer and you will have to learn how to drive your car all over again.

 

Just chiming in with my setup. I just reached a nice balance (or at least what I consider nice) between performance and comfort.

I drive a teg, so figure that you may want a tad bit softer rates for a del sol.

Koni/GC setup, BFGoodrich G-Force Sport 205/45/16

Flat 2" drop all around, I decided against eliminating the uneven wheel well gap, avoiding dropping the front more, which is what most people do, I find. I don't like the nose of the car pointing down any more. And my low hanging header survives all but the biggest pot holes. Smart driving has kept the header in good condition however.

430lb/in FRONT w/ stock '98 LS sway bar
375lb/in REAR w/ Progress 22mm sway bar

With all shock rebounds set on the stiff side, turn in is real nice, and the ride quality is more comfortable than a skunk2 pro-s by a good margin. If the shocks are set to soft, then there is a big difference in how the car behaves...body roll comes right back, and cornering is not that sporty. Probably better than a stock non-ITR suspension, but still unsatisfactory.

I drive around with a baby that sleeps right through the 375lb/in rear springs, so you figure they are definitely tolerable. I know, I'm evil! :D

 

the link doesnt work =\ but i've been looking at rotas i'll see what else there is though i kinda want some white rims. this is going towards wheel stuff though so i'll start lookin around in that section of the forums

 

anyone know anything about these coilovers? their pretty cheap at $499 wondering if their any good.

http://www.hondamarketplace.com/zerothread/2304432

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedRevolver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone know anything about these coilovers? their pretty cheap at $499 wondering if their any good.

http://www.hondamarketplace.com/zerothread/2304432</TD></TR></TABLE>

You generally get what you pay for. I have no clue on this brand, so I can't talk about them much in terms of specifics.

The Civic/Integra spring rates seem designed for street use. Stiff front to allow the car to be slammed, soft rear for (some) ride quality.

Also, what kind of damping curves do those shocks have? I can't find any information to determine, well, anything.

I wouldn't get them for competition use. I would, however, consider those spring rates paired with good shocks (and those might be good shocks, but I have no info) for a dumped street car that I didn't expect to corner well.

 

yeah get what you pay for is a big thing with cars i suppose haha. oh well though i was just curious if anyone knew about them, wasn't planning on getting them. but yeah i think i'm gonna try to get tires first before coilovers so no big deal right now anyway.

 

ok if that link didnt work for you then just hit search and look up ssk spoon rep. you should find them. but yeah dont get those crap coilovers. honestly the koni/gc setup is the best bang for the buck combo you can get rightnow. i wouldnt get anything else unless i could afford PIC or something. i'm still trying to find out what rates i want for my combo...

 

not bad, but their only 15x6.5 and only come in black =/ i have a black car and hate black on black rims. still waitin on a reply from another vendor so we'll see what i get.

 

I think tires should be your number 1 priority, and it seems like you understand that, so thats good.

In regards to your original question, for Auto-X I would use GC/Koni in a heartbeat. As for rates, I think a nice compromise for auto-x and street, if you want to be competitive, would be 550F/450R. Then use the appropriate rear bar and alignment settings to determine rotation.