I'm in real need of good info. I have a 91 HF that's been great for years, but the other day it was sputtering whenever I apply enough gas to maintain my current speed. Then i notice the #1 cylinder seems dead at idle. I can pull the plug wire and makes no difference to the rough idle. I can hear the wire arcing though. These conditions are real noticeable when the car warms up. When it's still cool, the car runs much better.
I noticed i cannot advance the timing anymore, eventhough it's still a couple degrees off when I use a light.
Here's a list of the things I have changed:
1. new distributor
2. swapped the vaccum assy with MAP with another working assy
3. plugs, wires
4. EGR
5. throttle body and position sensor
6. resistor box
7. main relay
8. PCV
9. Temp sensor
10. IAT sensor
11. ECU (yea, I'm running out of ideas by now)
12. replaced injectors
13. checked timing belt
14. checked compression
As you can tell by now, I'm in a world of hurt. The car is all stock and been taken care of. Is there anything I missed?
Thanks for any kind of help, and please I would like to see clean and sensable answers.




Modified by CRXnut at 8:36 PM 7/23/2008

 

Is the compression on the #1 lower than the other cylinders? If you have spark and compression on that cylinder, then I'm leaning toward wiring for #1 fuel injector.

 

The first thing you should do is check compression across the board and go from there.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check all the cylinders tomorrow. I just checked #1 and #2 and they were the same. I'll run a meter on all my injectors tomorrow also.
This has really got me puzzled. I might have to get on-line somewhere and find out what all my values should be throughout the harness. Something tells me it's a tiny problem, but it won't rear it's ugly head until I spend the maximum amount of time and money first. Nonetheless, I still think the CRX is one of the best cars I've ever owned.
I'll post my results tomorrow.
Thanks again!

 

I don't think this a a compression issue. I had the exact same problem with my 91 HF.

I did all the usual check that you did. Then I decided to pulled the "dead" injector harness out, no change in idle. Then I took a multi meter and connected to the injector harness, current was flowing to the harness...
You problem is a dead.............

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check all the cylinders tomorrow. I just checked #1 and #2 and they were the same. I'll run a meter on all my injectors tomorrow also.
This has really got me puzzled. I might have to get on-line somewhere and find out what all my values should be throughout the harness. Something tells me it's a tiny problem, but it won't rear it's ugly head until I spend the maximum amount of time and money first. Nonetheless, I still think the CRX is one of the best cars I've ever owned.
I'll post my results tomorrow.
Thanks again!

 

Not the suspence. You're killin me!
Well I did check the continuity of the jectors and it all seems to check out fine.
One tidbit of info though (and I'm really hoping this will key someone in to the specific problem), the #1 cylinder seems dead, BUT right around 2600 RPM I notice a big power increase and the engine smoothes out. So (this is just my theory), there must be 2 different modes this car uses for the ignition. First mode would be the low RPM, then the second for higher RPM. My question is 'is there another relay or any other critical component that controls this?'
And one more piece of the puzzle; I found a tiny washer in the drivers side floor board. It still had the shiny gold look to it like the kind of finish Honda uses. I don't think my shoe carried it from the outside. My next task is to pull the instrument cluster out and look for any loose connections. Are there any modules that I should check while I'm in there?
Thanks again to you guys who's tryin to help me out!

 

you are loosing your train of thought, forget about the washer, check the obvios that everyone is telling you to check first, then worry about the washer.

 

Well if it's the compression that you're reffering to, I checked all cylinders. They are all good and within 3 psi +/- of one another. I'm beginning to think I have a floating ground somewhere. Now I just need to figure out which pins going to the ECU should be ground.

 

I really, really doubt its a ground. Its probably your actual #1 injector. If the voltage is ok on the plug, but pulling it does nothing, thats most likely youre problem.

 

Ok. I mess with it this weekend when I have more time. One of the things I have done earlier was swap injectors and this didn't help. I have some injectors from an identical engine that lost a timing belt from another HF. So I'll swap these parts and see what happens. Another thought was a weak fuel fuel pump. Opinion?

 

I just noticed you said you cant advance the timing any more even though its still off. Sounds like you jumped a tooth on your timing belt. Incorrect timing would cause your exact problem.

 

Your number one injector is dead! Go to the junkyard and get two, it's only $12.00 in my area. Make sure you get one from the same model as the Si will flow more fuel than needed.

I too was puzzled, with my hesitation/sputter problem. Now it runs like a 60hp bat outta hella.

 

Before installing the new/used injector, pull them all out and mark there location and soak them in some Seafoam(injector cleaner).

 

Ok. Great ideas. I grabbed some other injectors and I'll clean them real well for this weekends projects.
As for the timing not advancing, I think I messed up when I checked the timing. I didn't use a jumper wire at the pig-tail under the dash as the manual shows. So I'll do this again the correct way and see what happens.
Thanks alot you guys for helping me out. I'll post my results.

 

Well anticipation got the best of me. I couldn't wait till this weekend. I replaced the injectors. Still no difference. I even exchanged the (new) spark plugs. No difference.
I even had an injector hooked up outside the fuel rail (another injector remained within the fuel rail disconnected) and started the car, and felt it pulse. So this means it is getting fuel (once it's hooked up to the 'installed' injector) I'm assuming.
I then re-checked the compression. The #1 cylinder is actually higher by 3 psi than the #4.
Here's a question that I'm almost afraid to ask, but at one time I 'thought' the ECU would have a green light if everything was working as it should. Is this true? If so, mine shows no light whatsoever. Just a quick red blink right when I turn the key.
My last thing to check this weekend is (again) the timing belt. It's new and tight and has about 2k miles on it, but it doesn't hurt to double check everything.
Again, I revved the engine and at 2600 RPM it smoothes out.
I have rebuilt and restored many cars and one basic rule I have come to understand is that if a cylinder is getting gas, and has spark it HAS to work. I know there are variables such as timing and ratios that can be critical, but man, this is eating my lunch.
I would greatly appreciate any more suggestions. Thanks in advance!

 

check if cylinder 1 is getting spark.. and check your timing

 

A cylinder doesnt HAVE to work if its getting fuel and spark if the fuel and spark arent coming at the right time. Well, it will work, but like absolute ****.

Think about it like eating cake. You open your mouth wide, pick up the fork, get some cake, close your mouth, and then try and jam the fork in there. Thats pretty much what youre engine is doing with the fuel and spark if your timing is off.

If you cant set the timing, thats your problem. I garauntee it. I dont understand why people cant get this through their heads. You can see it day in and day out on this board, people always say "My engine is running like **** i threw about 1000 dollars into parts i didnt need, and it still runs like ****!" and then 50 posts full of suggestions later they say "Oh my timing is off, does that matter?"

 

Good analogy on eating cake. heh. Now I understand the scar tissue that has been on my chin ever since my last birthday.
Yes, I have alot of engine rebuilds, including high performance, under my belt and I do understand the importance of timing. One of the basic rules to any kind of diagnosis is to look for the simplest, most cost effective solution. You have a good point though. It's easy to get caught up in opening the wallet and hoping the answer falls out. I have dealt with people who are too familiar with this concept. With the years I have in rebuilding I have fallen to this also. This is just part of the learning experience. Education comes at an expense and I admit it.
The timing was one of the first things I have checked and it seemed to be right on the money, but I will check not only with the timing marks again, but i will also use a dial indicator on #1 to check the finite TDC just in case there's something quirky going on. Also, with the dial indicator, I will check the lift and duration on the exhaust and intake to make sure the cam lobe is within spec. I have experienced this situation before.
I appreciate the time given for any suggestions.


Modified by CRXnut at 3:53 PM 7/24/2008


Modified by CRXnut at 5:38 PM 8/25/2008

 

The timing has been checked. It's dead-on. Still rough idle. Time to check all electrical wires and connection.
I also sprayed all components where vaccum is present in hopes of noticing a change in RPM. Still nothing.
Only the number one cylinder is weak. Something about 2600 RPM when it smoothes out. This is a mystery.

 

Well it's fixed. To anyone out there with the same problems, all I can say is that this particular situation probably wouldn't apply to you, but for your entertainment, I feel I should provide information.
This car is a fully loaded HF. Weird i know. It's like the buyer wanted to be cheap, but decided to get all the options (sunroof, splash guards, and oh,,,, the optional, and seldom seen by me, CRUISE CONTROL). Yes, an HF with Honda cruise. Well, this was my problem. I disconnected the unit and it all ran fine. There were a couple of loose wires anyway. Maybe this was the problem, maybe I rattled a different connection, maybe the Honda Gods felt I have been punished enough. We may never know. All I do know for sure, I have a strong running car with under 70 hp. Ok American automakers, let's see you come close to a car that was built 17 years ago and gets that good of mileage with that much spunk. God Bless the C-REX.
There ya go.

 

Neat. Good find.

You won't see another CRX because if they crash test/safety tested these at Today's Standards... well... can you say

1-Star Driver Side
2-Star Passenger Side
?

And it would be a little heavier with ABS/airbag, and some reinforcing.

But I still my 130k 1990 HF.

 

Rough idle you say? It sounds like you might have a bent valve on that cylinder. If you had the belt off far enough a piston could have touched off a valve, causing compression to go down on the cylinder too fast, which wouldn't show up on a compression test, but would on a leakdown test. It would also explain the engine running like **** until higher RPMs. I had this problem once with a carb'd CRX. I chased it forever until someone told me to try a leakdown test. #1 leaked down so much faster than the other cylinders it was ridiculous. Maybe you should pull the head and check it out since you have a spare.