If you go into a corner too hot and wreck on a supersport, would you have wrecked just the same on something less powerful (250, 500, 650, etc.)? Is the mentality more of a deciding factor than the bike? And the fact that more new riders who get into accidents on supersports is because they have a particular mentality which drove them to get that supersport as their first bike to begin with? So even if they started on a Ninja 500, the mentality is still there and an accident is inevitable?

I had a friend tell me an interesting thing at the track a year or so ago. He was racing an SV650 with me but came from a 1000cc background. I was asking him about the differences and the first thing he said was, "I feel like trying to race this bike is more dangerous than my 1000. I'm pushing harder and taking more risks to try and go fast on this thing. My 1000 was much easier."

Irrespective of this guy's riding ability/background (it's legit and off topic), what he said stuck. If someone on the street has the mentality of just wanting to go fast, they're going to do it one way or another. They may even end up being more wreckless about it on a non-supersport bike, dragging pegs, exhausts, unsafe maneuvers to catch up, etc. It's either that or they're going fast without the ability because the bike's ability is compensating.

So does it really matter what bike you start with? Or is the new rider ratio of accident to bike size moreso a matter of mentality?

And if this seems like a jumble of thoughts that's because it is.

 

I personally think it does matter what you start with and I'm a complete noob rider. I'm going to go by what I know about track driving (with a car) and try to apply it to motorcycles.

If I started with a Corvette when I started track driving, I'm 99% sure my learning curve would have been hampered considerably. By starting with a lower horsepower car, I got to work on turning in/braking technique, basic line adherence and other things that would have been harder with a higher horsepower car. I mean, it's pretty consistent on an average track day to see the new guy in his shiny Z06 either being the slowest asshat out there just ripping it in only on the straights or the first to hit armco.

Having something that is tractable and having to work at maintain speed is probably going to teach me more about the dynamics of motorcycling than something that has the latest and greatest power, braking and handling.

You're right though. Any motorcycle is capable of going into a corner too hot for the rider and wrecking. But I would rather stack the odds in my favor in whichever way I can. If most of the older (and I mean downright ancient) riders are telling me to start small, it's best that I take their advice. I mean, some of those guys have been riding longer than I've been alive. They must know something that I don't.

 

In reply to OP:

I see what you're trying to say, but I disagree.

On any bike, after a short period of time, a new rider will think that they have mastered it and are in control. They start to ride more aggressively, and on a slow bike, this is dangerous, but nowhere as bad as on a supersport with razor quick throttle response and over 100hp on tap.

As far as your friend and the SV650 vs liter bike, I think that by starting on a 1000, he used the bike's immense power as a handicap for his (relative) lack of riding ability. It's better to start on something slow that you can take to the very edge and master, then to move on to a more powerful bike. Then again, I've never been to a track, so I might be wrong.

 

I have to point out that there is much more to the equation that simply the size of displacement. a 250cc sportbike can be much more potent than 1000cc cruiser... so the displacement has little to do with safety.

HOWEVER... within its own class, I do think there is a valid argument for smaller displacement bikes being the more user friendly platform, specially for a new/mid-level rider with little to no experience with which to draw from.

To be honest, I don't even think the point is arguable... it's been a given for many decades. Just because a point or perspective is not resolved in ones own mind, does not mean that the point is unresolved on a whole

 

As with any sport that demands skill, attention, coordination, patience, and control to master, one needs to start small.

It is the same with shooting. While one could start off with a .40 S&W and master it, the shooter is much more likely to learn bad habits than if he had started off with a .22LR. The end result will be the same but the gradual progression will show to be quicker and better in the long run.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jasper_db1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As with any sport that demands skill, attention, coordination, patience, and control to master, one needs to start small.

It is the same with shooting. While one could start off with a .40 S&W and master it, the shooter is much more likely to learn bad habits than if he had started off with a .22LR. The end result will be the same but the gradual progression will show to be quicker and better in the long run.</TD></TR></TABLE>That right there, was the best way I've ever heard it put

 

Indeed.... lets just throw our pilots into the latest gen raptor without ever having had any trainer experience, after all I am sure survival is unrelated to aircraft capabilities

 

If you have a squid mentality - your gonna screw up no matter what. But then again, putting a n00b on a liter bike is folly.

Walk before you run.

MD

 

exactly our point... better slower than faster

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To be honest, I don't even think the point is arguable... it's been a given for many decades. Just because a point or perspective is not resolved in ones own mind, does not mean that the point is unresolved on a whole</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a very credible argument that a stronger/faster bike is actually the safer bike... </TD></TR></TABLE>

taken from https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2


So which is it old man?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GraphiteAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

taken from https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2


So which is it old man? </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a very credible argument that a stronger/faster bike is actually the safer bike... but only in the right hands </TD></TR></TABLE>

How's about quoting people in full? I think most anyone deserves the decency. He cleary stated that there are arguements in either direction. Is that a crime?

 

quite honestly, I think you can get into a lot of trouble on whatever you start on, and the common sense applied to picking up a small CC bike to start with is probably sound. Whatever you choose, respect the bike. If you're an idiot, you're probably going to end up on your *** no matter what bike you begin with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Labarum &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">quite honestly, I think you can get into a lot of trouble on whatever you start on, and the common sense applied to picking up a small CC bike to start with is probably sound. Whatever you choose, respect the bike. If you're an idiot, you're probably going to end up on your *** no matter what bike you begin with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is exactly where I was at when purchasing my Rebel. I was brand new and didn't know anything about riding. After a couple of months, I feel very comfortable on the bike, but not so comfortable that I allow myself to be lackadaisical while riding. I should be completing the MSF course this weekend and once the buyer for my Civic SI picks her up, it's off to find me a sportbike!

Whether it's cars or bikes, I have always respected machinery, especially that which I am unfamiliar with. I think that as long as you do that and don't allow your ego to get in the way, you should be alright

P.S. Ditto to what thk said about track driving. It's amazing how much better of a driver you'll be starting in a slow car. That's definitely my opinion and not fact, but I think that you certainly learn greater control and smoother inputs by starting slower.