I've searched like hell but there isn't much on this topic, plus it's one of those things thats hard to search for.

my problem
I put a VTEC head on my LS block and I can't seem to get VTEC to engage. It's definitely wired okay because i tested it out a bunch of different ways, including hardwiring a switch to the the VTEC solenoid and battery. I cleaned the solenoid and it is clicking. I did the air pressure test w/ 55psi and none of the pins seem to engage. I see air bubles around the pins and the pins move ever so slightly. Maybe i'm doing something wrong with the air pressure test so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Hell, my cell is (nine-one-three)271-7789 if you want to talk rather than type. I spelled out the area code in case text spammers search for numbers.

my proposed solution
I'm trying to decide if I want to just go "VTEC only" with my setup. If you don't know what i'm talking about, you can put hard pins through VTEC to keep it always engaged. I drive this car on the street quite a bit, but i still have a true daily driver. Is the idle that rough with VTEC engaged at idle? Has anyone ran this setup on the street? I've ran non-vtec 404's and they were very streetable for me. Is it a pain to change this over? Do you just need to find the right size pin and stick it through, it's that simple? The advantage is that I think tuning it would be very simple, plus I could go back to my non-vtec ECU and sell my p28.

Thanks!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've searched like hell but there isn't much on this topic, plus it's one of those things thats hard to search for.

my problem
I put a VTEC head on my LS block and I can't seem to get VTEC to engage. It's definitely wired okay because i tested it out a bunch of different ways, including hardwiring a switch to the the VTEC solenoid and battery. I cleaned the solenoid and it is clicking. I did the air pressure test w/ 55psi and none of the pins seem to engage. I see air bubles around the pins and the pins move ever so slightly. Maybe i'm doing something wrong with the air pressure test so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Hell, my cell is (nine-one-three)271-7789 if you want to talk rather than type. I spelled out the area code in case text spammers search for numbers.

my proposed solution
I'm trying to decide if I want to just go "VTEC only" with my setup. If you don't know what i'm talking about, you can put hard pins through VTEC to keep it always engaged. I drive this car on the street quite a bit, but i still have a true daily driver. Is the idle that rough with VTEC engaged at idle? Has anyone ran this setup on the street? I've ran non-vtec 404's and they were very streetable for me. Is it a pain to change this over? Do you just need to find the right size pin and stick it through, it's that simple? The advantage is that I think tuning it would be very simple, plus I could go back to my non-vtec ECU and sell my p28.

Thanks!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your smoking crack. Fix the Vtec system to work correctly and enjoy a much broader powerband that would actually be usefull. You have something either wired incorrectly, incorrect ECU/chip, or possibly a mechanical/oil supply issue.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your smoking crack. Fix the Vtec system to work correctly and enjoy a much broader powerband that would actually be usefull. You have something either wired incorrectly, incorrect ECU/chip, or possibly a mechanical/oil supply issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your help, but it's definitely not electrical since i hardwired a switch to the battery and the VTEC solenoid and it didn't engage VTEC. I really don't think I'm smoking crack to think about loosing what 5-10 hp from 0 to 4,000RPM? Really, how much broader will the powerband be? If I wanted good power under 4 grand I sure as hell wouldn't have bought a honda. Believe it or not, but cars do exist that run huge cams that don't have VTEC. Let me know if you are speaking from experience and how it idled for you.

What I'm most curious about is if I did anything wrong with my air compressor test. Secondly, how hard the is the install and how does it idle (i've got 404's to idle perfectly very easily FWIW).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks for your help, but it's definitely not electrical since i hardwired a switch to the battery and the VTEC solenoid and it didn't engage VTEC. I really don't think I'm smoking crack to think about loosing what 5-10 hp from 0 to 4,000RPM? Really, how much broader will the powerband be? If I wanted good power under 4 grand I sure as hell wouldn't have bought a honda. Believe it or not, but cars do exist that run huge cams that don't have VTEC. Let me know if you are speaking from experience and how it idled for you.

What I'm most curious about is if I did anything wrong with my air compressor test. Secondly, how hard the is the install and how does it idle (i've got 404's to idle perfectly very easily FWIW).</TD></TR></TABLE>

You will need to find someone running a Vtec killer type of setup. I honestly have never done this. You want to know why? Its simple. I need to pass smog, drive to work everyday, and not have to fight with my car off idle when taking off from a stoplight.

According to the Crower website itself, the 404's run considerably less duration and less lift then even a stock GSR camshaft. While the lift wouldn't be my main concern, large duration cams DO tend to lead to a less then desirable idle when talking about a street driven vehicle. Common sense tells me right there that this is not what I am seeking and therefore I do not need to invest the time to "convert" my car so I can tell you first hand how much it sucks.

If you are after a race only engine and don't care, then investigate the option further. Like I said, I haven't done it myself or had the desire to do it so I don't know what all is involved. If you didn't care about the whole Vtec system, why bother with spending the extra money on a Vtec engine?

For the record, I have personally done well over 100 dyno pulls on various setups. I have done about 30 on the current engine alone. I can tell you from first hand experience that engaging vtec very early will lead to more then a 5-10hp loss.

Remember that the ECU controls Vtec based off several parameters. Speed, oil pressure, coolant temperature and engine load are a few that come to mind...

 

FWIW, in the reverse situation, VTEC not activating and staying on the low cam, I have had a personal engine lose 60 horses.

 

If your heart is set on locking it in VTEC all the time, disassemble the rockers and reverse the pin direction, it will lock it in.

 

Thank you very much. I don't have to meet any emissions in KS and I have a ACT 6-puck unsprung clutch, so getting off the line is pretty difficult already. I'm sure losing lowend power would hurt that. It sounds like I should try harder to figure out whats wrong with VTEC. I thought the 404's were very similar in specs to a VTEC lobe, but i guess i'm wrong on that. I'd love to have VTEC engaging, but if I can't figure this problem out I'd rather have VTEC always engaged than VTEC never engaged.

Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong with the "air compressor" test? I have it down to just the oil and pins and VTEC doesn't seem to engage. The cams are out of the motor, so when I pressurize the oil system I can lift the VTEC rocker up and down and it never locks up with the others. The pins are moving freely. I guess I can put it all together and see if it works, but I'd rather get this test working. Is there some trick to this? Shouldn't I be able to pressurize the system to 55psi and play with the VTEC lobe and have it lock together? I plugged the hole on the side of the #5 cam cap and the hoes from removing the cam plates. I can tell a little air pressure is seeping out, but it seems mostly pressurized to me. Is there some other special hole somewhere?

This is somewhat offtopic, but can you clearly hear VTEC engage (not IAB's, VTEC). There is a very very small chance it could be engaging, but I couldn't hear it and most importantly I have this car on a wideband 24/7 and the wideband would never change when I manually engaged VTEC via my ghetto-rigged switch.

Thanks,
Alex


Modified by Cyphear at 10:41 AM 6/22/2008

 

It's still going to run like ****, I was just telling you how to do it.

 

have you tried replacing the v-tec switch? it could be more mechanical then electrical.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you very much. I don't have to meet any emissions in KS and I have a ACT 6-puck unsprung clutch, so getting off the line is pretty difficult already. I'm sure losing lowend power would hurt that. It sounds like I should try harder to figure out whats wrong with VTEC. I thought the 404's were very similar in specs to a VTEC lobe, but i guess i'm wrong on that. I'd love to have VTEC engaging, but if I can't figure this problem out I'd rather have VTEC always engaged than VTEC never engaged.

Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong with the "air compressor" test? I have it down to just the oil and pins and VTEC doesn't seem to engage. The cams are out of the motor, so when I pressurize the oil system I can lift the VTEC rocker up and down and it never locks up with the others. The pins are moving freely. I guess I can put it all together and see if it works, but I'd rather get this test working. Is there some trick to this? Shouldn't I be able to pressurize the system to 55psi and play with the VTEC lobe and have it lock together? I plugged the hole on the side of the #5 cam cap and the hoes from removing the cam plates. I can tell a little air pressure is seeping out, but it seems mostly pressurized to me. Is there some other special hole somewhere?

This is somewhat offtopic, but can you clearly hear VTEC engage (not IAB's, VTEC). There is a very very small chance it could be engaging, but I couldn't hear it and most importantly I have this car on a wideband 24/7 and the wideband would never change when I manually engaged VTEC via my ghetto-rigged switch.

Thanks,
Alex


Modified by Cyphear at 10:41 AM 6/22/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

With stock cams and the stock GSR intake manifold its actually quite difficult to hear the Vtec engagement. I wouldn't say its as hard as it is with a single cam, but its nothing like my 99 Si was with the AEM intake. Once I got rid of the stock manifold and put in some blox b's, no mistake then

I'm not sure how good the "air test" method would be. I know there is a section in the Helm manual that refers to it. Perhaps you should review that to make sure you are doing the test correctly. Leaving out any specific steps might allow for a leak in which case the system would not function properly. Typically speaking, if you aren't throwing any codes then the system is working to its designed intent. Asside from not hearing the changeover, you would certainly notice the top end power lacking considerably. As mentioned before, CC says he noticed a 60hp LOSS with Vtec not working. Thats something that any *** dyno should be able to detect.

 

I didn't know there was such thing as a vtec switch. is there?

Yeah, the butt dyno was definitely a big indicator. My LSVTEC setup definitely feels slower than my LS setup. Plus, the wideband should change at least one tenth when VTEC kicks on w/o any fuel enrichment from the ECU.

I don't have a helms manual. I have chiltons which has never been useful. I guess I could always buy one, but i pretty much know how to do about everything to my car (not to be cocky, but i'm sure most of us are the same way).

 

describe what all you did to "put the vtec head on the ls block" did you plumb oil pressure to the head? and block off the stock vtec oil supply on the underside of the head?

 

that happens when u have a missing piston on them rockers. check at least

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shawn C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">describe what all you did to "put the vtec head on the ls block" did you plumb oil pressure to the head? and block off the stock vtec oil supply on the underside of the head?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I believe I did run oil to the back of the head and I did plug a port on the bottom of the head and moved a dowel and drilled out a dowel on the HG. I read before I did it, but it was my first LSVTEC build so I can't be positive I did everything right.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that happens when u have a missing piston on them rockers. check at least </TD></TR></TABLE>

Missing pistons? Is that the same thing as missing pins, or is the piston something different? All the pins are there and move freely.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by downest &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your heart is set on locking it in VTEC all the time, disassemble the rockers and reverse the pin direction, it will lock it in. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just in case I go down this route, don't I pretty much have to pull the head to slide the rocker assembly out? In other words, wont the rocker shafts run into my frame if I try to slide them out?


Modified by Cyphear at 10:44 AM 6/23/2008

 

Just take them out the other side, no need to remove the head.

 

I found some great testing info in the integra service manuals which I found online. I was doing everything right, but once my friend comes over again (to plug up the holes) i'll run air through it again just to be sure.

 

I have another thread going asking specific questions about my testing, but long story short I can't get the air pressure test method to engage VTEC. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2328141

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by downest &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your heart is set on locking it in VTEC all the time, disassemble the rockers and reverse the pin direction, it will lock it in. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So if I want to try this method temporarily (or longer), how could this work? You have two pins and one "receiver" (or female) pin. I understand you can flip the two pins around and one lifter will be locked, but what about the other lifter? Has this been done before? It doesn't make sense to me, unless you can move that "female" pin somewhere else, or else i'd think you'd need to add another pin.

Thanks!

 

The way i did it is by removing the rockers from the head, on the rocker that the oil goes into, remove the pin and place 5 8mm washers then re-install the pin and now it is spaced out as if there was oil there. with stock cams the idle is normal and i have power up to 9200 rpm.