just wondering if anyone had any expiriance with these good/bad just ok let me know
thanks<

 

Cams on S2000's = useless. It doesn't matter which brand or what kind, they all do little.

 

so 17whp on a stock f20 is useless? hmmm where are you from

 

I have never seen any cams on the s2000 give 17rwhp. Do a search, there are numerous threads on here and on s2ki and the numbers are no where near 17rwhp. If you got those numbers from the Buddy Club site, then that's the numbers they have stated, but as all manufacturers, they over exaggerate on their improvements.

Calling me BS on your second post on this forum is not a good move on your behalf. Do some research before you go to those measures. And considering you posted this tread means to me that you haven't done your research nor do you know what you're talking about when it comes to cams on this car.

 

i say you ban him papa.

and i have yet to hear of any cams that make power. i have heard of cams that make the s2000 lose power though.

 

i say you buy them and try them out. then tell us if you get a 17whp increase.

 

pretty much proves all the talk right here. thats on a bone stock f20c..BC stage 2 cams retainers and springs. im emailed BC and they said u dont have to run the retainers or springs unless you plan on going over ur factory rev limiter. looks like they are worth the money huh

 

o cool, i dynoed my S at the same dyno

 

So that graph was from BC themselves? Honestly, you can't believe everything the manufacture tells you. We all know that they always exaggerate or leave out a key factor when they show you the dyno.

Here's some other dynos from people that have actually done tests on cams (non manufacturers.

Blue stock, Red with Toda SpecA cams


On a turbo charged car. Crower stage 2 cams
The poster claims he made 410.95rwhp with 251.16 torque @ 16psi with stock cams; 373.29rwhp with 246.54 torque @ 16psi with the Crower cams


Another turbo charged car. Skunk 2 stage 2 cams
The poster claims Red lines are Skunk2 cams, Blue lines are stock cams


That's just three that I found with a simple search. I know there are more if I'm to look for it because I remember other cars that had bad results with cams, I'm just not in the mood to find them.

 

For the record you could put less money and time into some thing else for the car and get more bang

 

Someone on s2ki.com recently posted in the force induction thread that XS engineering did a toda spec B cams on a comptech supercharged s2k and picked up 40whp.

 

DA ANG!

 

Cams without more compression to utilize the added duration and lift usually do little.

Now if someone were to bump this thing up to 12.5:1 or so, you would probably see a gain in power but a longer duration and later intake closing point means less dynamic compression thus usually less power or a very marginal gain.

 

you want short duration to close the valves as fast as possible right?

 

No, the short version is something like this.

The longer the valve is open on the compression stroke to a fault, the more air can be forced into a cylinder due to reversion from a properly designed intake manifold but more compression is required to utilize this.

An intake cam closing 54 degree ABDC on an 11:1 motor and one closing 67 degrees ABDC on a 13:1 motor will both have similar dynamic compression which is the number you get doing a compression test.

However, the 13:1 motor with the larger cams will make more power. If you put the larger cams in the 11:1 motor, it will bleed off cranking pressure a good amount until it starts to kill power if that makes sense.

There are two versions of compression, static which is the measure of swept volume of the cylinder vs compressed volume and is the compression numbers advertised. It's simple math, 100 cc's all the way down, 10 cc's all the way up is 10:1 compression. When you factor in other factors like cam duration, you come up with static compression.

A late intake closing point, piston prep, and other factors are what let me run 13.3:1 compression on pump gas with a 75 shot in my last hatch back. That motor was a big argument in the all motor forum between me and Don Flores for a while as most said it wouldn't run but turned out to be a great motor.


Edit, to add to this, cam overlap comes into play as well which also gets into the argument over whether an NA motor can exceed 100% volumetric efficiency.

A lot of smart guys swear it can due to two different things, the intake and exhaust valves being open at the same time momentarily during the top of the exhaust/beginning of the intake stroke, the drawing out of the spent mixture will draw more air in because mother nature doesn't like vacuums. Then you also get into reversion pulses which in short are the prior strokes intake charge hit the closed valve, bounced back into the other air, and is then forced back into the cylinder as the valve opens again for the next intake charge. There is a lot of math and thought into this but I disagree with the theory.

When you have aggressive cams, The intake valve could be open as late as 70 degrees into the 180 degree compression stroke, SOME of that air in the cylinder is going to be pushed back into the intake manifold. Dema Elgin (one of the worlds greatest custom cam builders) doesn't agree with it either, I searched some of his work while we were having one of the 14 page discussions in all motor lol. No matter how perfect a build, head, intake, and exhaust is designed, although it can get close to perfect, I don't believe you will ever see dynamic compression pass static AKA surpass 100% volumetric efficiency.


Modified by Jay_Sensing at 12:19 PM 6/8/2008

 

[QUOTE=papa5murf]So that graph was from BC themselves? Honestly, you can't believe everything the manufacture tells you. We all know that they always exaggerate or leave out a key factor when they show you the dyno.

ya, i pulled that from bc's site. ive been reading up on them a lot and i really think they would be a good call for the s, any torque increase is good esp if you plan on staying na like i do. but theres nothing wrong with different opinions. best way to find out is to buy them and see wat happens..which i plan on doin haha

 

actually I did research the cams and found the 17 whp dyno graph stock and actually called bc\ and they said no stand alone no tricks so I guess you think they would just post those numbers for fun ? or to get sued when a car doesnt hit that # or close to it. I asked to see if any members were using them and had good luck/liked them I have built
several cars over the past 10 years and went into mid 11's all motor stock bore so think i know a little. your negativity right off the bat is why I bs you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S2kGuy07 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ya, i pulled that from bc's site. ive been reading up on them a lot and i really think they would be a good call for the s, any torque increase is good esp if you plan on staying na like i do. but theres nothing wrong with different opinions. best way to find out is to buy them and see wat happens..which i plan on doin haha</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think money and time spent (on installing) could be used better else ware, especially if you're not using a Kpro or AEM EMS or something of that caliber to tune it to try to extract as much from them as possible. Just slapping them on and going, it's going to yield much as it's been proven in most instances.

 

also bc stated that if you were to have CA header TP exhaust guys in cali were netting around 30-35 whp gains which I have this and alot more

 

i doubt they made 17whp just cams alone. with a tune maybe

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by streetkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually I did research the cams and found the 17 whp dyno graph stock and actually called bc\ and they said no stand alone no tricks so I guess you think they would just post those numbers for fun ? or to get sued when a car doesnt hit that # or close to it. I asked to see if any members were using them and had good luck/liked them I have built
several cars over the past 10 years and went into mid 11's all motor stock bore so think i know a little. your negativity right off the bat is why I bs you </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you're the type that believes in everything a manufacturer tells you? They wouldn't get sued because there would be no way you would win that case. They say 17whp, you go get the same thing done and you only get 3whp. You won't sue them for false advertising because you would lose your case because there are too many variables to play with them in comes to this (and if you in fact have built several cars over the years into the mid 11's all motor yada yada yada, you would know this).

Every car is different, even the same model car will be different on the dyno. Then you factor in which dyno, dyno calibrations, temperature, humidity, tires, air pressure in the tires, and so forth can all sway the dyno numbers. And these would be the exact things a manufacture would state in court to have the case thrown out.

If you did your research, you wouldn't have posted this thread as you would have found plenty of threads on the subject matter to fill in your curiosity of cams on this car.

So before you call me BS on my apparent negativity because I simple stated that cams are pretty useless on this car, you should know what you're talking about and be able to back it up with facts (not from Buddy Club themselves).

Don't get me wrong, there have been a couple cars here and there that have got some decent numbers (that's putting it lightly) from them. But the majority have been useless.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by streetkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually I did research the cams and found the 17 whp dyno graph stock and actually called bc\ and they said no stand alone no tricks so I guess you think they would just post those numbers for fun ? or to get sued when a car doesnt hit that # or close to it. I asked to see if any members were using them and had good luck/liked them I have built
several cars over the past 10 years and went into mid 11's all motor stock bore so think i know a little. your negativity right off the bat is why I bs you </TD></TR></TABLE>

No one is calling you an idiot dude, it's the fact that you claim they can get sued for the lack of equal gains that shows you are naive however. No matter what you have built in the past, an F20 is not a B18, I have built numerous engines as well, more than I care to think about, but something are well tuned from the factory, have little in the way of restrictions, and simply won't make the gains as a less well designed motor would.

Nothing is written in stone, the BC's may make good power, but it would be from ROCK STOCK to cams and tune.

30whp from cams and IHE is simply ludicrous though. On a K20, yes, easily. On an F20/22, probably not or EVERYONE would already have them. You aren't the first to think of this idea and BC isn't the first company to hype a product.

 

what is this buddy club talk lol? BRIAN CROWER CAM'S and obviously your just another
honda tech guy afraid to mod the F20!

 

SUBJECT CHANGE. Papa u live in va, y didnt u come to the east coast honda meet sat?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by streetkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is this buddy club talk lol? BRIAN CROWER CAM'S and obviously your just another
honda tech guy afraid to mod the F20!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well excuse me for mistaking the BC for Buddy Club as the Buddy Club cams have been the most popular and have shown the most increase/potential out of all the other cams out there. If you're talking about Brian Crower, you're even deeper in trouble. Look at the dyno sheets I've posted above. There was also an instance where Brian Crower was giving out refunds to everyone that bought their cams (don't quote me on this but it was the word that was going around a couple years ago).

Me too afraid to mod the F20? ROFL. Don't kid yourself, and please know what you are talking about first. If you consider a turbo charged s2000 pushing the 400+rwhp/300+wtq area is being afraid to mod the F20, you've got something coming to you when you put in those cams and get 3rwhp out of it.