Wanted to get a general feel from everyone on any interest in an ARP headstud kit with their L19 material.

General Info from ARP
"20. How does L19 compare to ARP2000?

L19 differs from ARP2000 in that it is a vacuum melted alloyed steel with sufficient chromium and carbon to achieve high hardness (but below the level of a stainless steel). L19 is air-cooled from the hardening temperature in a way that does not require an oil quench to achieve full hardness and is tempered to assure full conversion to martensite between 1025°F and 1075˚F. L19 is a proprietary material capable of achieving strengths of 220,000/230,000 or 260,000/270,000 psi as may be required. Both L19 and ARP2000 steels are modified bcc (martensite) at room temperature. L19 has the same advantage as ARP2000 in that a high strength is obtained at a high tempering temperature. This alloy is easily contaminated and requires special handling."

Exact specifications to follow, what I've been told was 100 ft/lbs would work out to be less than 70% tensile strength. These are not intended for daily driver/weekend warriors, soley for drag cars making substantial horsepower, where either the off-shelf studs aren't working out or a 1/2" stud is not an option.

Sets would be available with or without a dogface.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a1320addict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Exact specifications to follow, what I've been told was 100 ft/lbs would work out to be less than 70% tensile strength. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy.

I don't know what everyone is torquing their hotrod heads to, but that's pretty friggen tight.

 

Will the threads or inserts in the block hold that much torque ? (100ftlbs)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holy.

I don't know what everyone is torquing their hotrod heads to, but that's pretty friggen tight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is exactly why I wanted to get some input, being everyone has their own methods, it will provide neccesarry information that ARP simply can't give for our specific applications. I normally get to about 80 ft/lbs with the off-shelf stud before getting nervous; not just on the block thread end of things, but also on stretching the stud.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will the threads or inserts in the block hold that much torque ? (100ftlbs)</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the question, I mentioned the dogface availability to bottom the stud out without the threads doing the job as the non-dogface stud would. In my old motor I had the 1/2" stud done, and IIRC we went to 90 ft/lbs no problem.

I've got a bum B16 sitting around over here, I'm going to throw a set of the off-shelf studs in, no dogface, and see what happens when 100 ft/lbs is applied, I know some guys were using a steel ball-bearing in the holes to get the same effect,

Interested to see some more response

 

Yes for L19

 

we have been using ARP " stock " replacement studs, forever now, never had a problem. torque to what arp calls for 70ft.lbs i do believe.

how much are they 450.00 ? LOL

 

Pricing looks to be much cheaper than doing the 1/2" Stud, based on what it cost me to do it on the last motor.

 

the target number is ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the target number is ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Without this being mistaken as a marketing/for sale thread with the gestapo all over the place, lol, anticipated pricing would be under $235.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But it's been shown that something 1/2" isn't needed even on 185 mph capable motors, I think that's more what Dave is getting at. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I hear you, but I'd like to think peace of mind is a huge thing for a lot of guys out there y'know? I did the 1/2" stud because at the time I couldn't find any other option that would take the worry away.

 

I've always used the off the shelf ARP or GE and no problems. Torqued to 80 Ft. Lbs.

I'd be to nervous to torque the head down to 100 ft. lbs.

 

In one of our D series blocks I pulled the threads out with 73ftlbs on OEM bolts. It was my fault, I got NM and Ftlbs mixed up.

But 73ftlbs stripped the threads.


I was torquing the ARP studs in last years D series to 70 ftlbs. But I believe we had inserts put in the block. Ryan may remember.

 

Why can't I find any information on the alloy grade being used to make these bolts?

L19 is used commonly on the internet to describe the material but there is no real information out there. Can we get some??

 

"L19 is a proprietary material"


I don't think you'll be able to find any info on it.

 

L19

now whats got me thinking... again... ive heard the ball bearing idea before, read up threads on it, tried it myself.... but i still dont understand exactly why it is benneficial or helpful if anyone cares to elaborate please pm me so i dont clutter up the thread

 

I use similar studs in our crx, not L19 but similar, I torque to 95 lbs. with inserts, haven't lifted the head since.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In one of our D series blocks I pulled the threads out with 73ftlbs on OEM bolts. It was my fault, I got NM and Ftlbs mixed up.

But 73ftlbs stripped the threads.


I was torquing the ARP studs in last years D series to 70 ftlbs. But I believe we had inserts put in the block. Ryan may remember.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

there is a huge difference in the torque applied to the threads in the block with bolts and studs, hence the reason we use studs. <U></U>

 

I use 1/2" L19 and tq to 105lb-ft. Keep them oiled or they will rust in about 5 seconds.

 

I'm waiting on ARP for some more technical information on the L19 material, from the conversations I've had with them, it's their strongest material for the application.

Exactly as SpeedDreamz.com said, they can be contaminated and will corrode if proper handling is disregarded, and the oiling is a big part of it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by taggart_lumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">L19 now whats got me thinking... again... ive heard the ball bearing idea before, read up threads on it, tried it myself.... but i still dont understand exactly why it is benneficial or helpful if anyone cares to elaborate please pm me so i dont clutter up the thread</TD></TR></TABLE>

The benefit to the ball-bearing concept is you're simply bottoming-out the stud on the bearing, so the stud can't bottom itself out. The same thing is accomplished with a dogface, which GE and AEBS do on the off-shelf stuff, ARP doesn't for the off-shelf Honda stud kits, but for custom order studs they can do it. My old 1/2" ARP studs had a dogface, the ball-bearing does the same thing.

It really comes down to the cost increase, I know of guys running the same off-shelf studs for the past year and a half, multiple head removals, +700whp, and don't have problems. And then there's cars making 800whp with a fresh set of studs and are lifting the head. In both cases the deck and head are without a doubt not warped.

So I figure for roughly 2x the cost, the potential for issue is negated

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by narfdanarf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

there is a huge difference in the torque applied to the threads in the block with bolts and studs, hence the reason we use studs. <U></U> </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this possible? and how did you measure to prove your theory?

 

Will the ball bearing trick work on a d-series block?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Clayton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this possible? and how did you measure to prove your theory?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont know about reality but theory says that a bolt has to twist in the block and also stretch. A stud pulls straight on the threads as the nut is doing the turning and the hardened washer acts like a bearing surface for it to spin on. Therefore the effect of friction on the threads in the block is also negated.

 

I just used threaded rod from the hardware store. I cut it into studs. Is that wrong?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newt Dog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will the ball bearing trick work on a d-series block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The concept applies to anything really.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NativeSon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just used threaded rod from the hardware store. I cut it into studs. Is that wrong?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh?

Didn't get around today to testing out the capability of a stock block, without inserts, to hold the 100 ft/lb number. Hopefully Monday I'll have some info on it; planning to compare a normally produced ARP piece with and without the ball-bearing, and a GE/AEBS stud with the dogface.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NativeSon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just used threaded rod from the hardware store. I cut it into studs. Is that wrong?</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha

 

Will be testing out what the stock threads can hold in the next day or so