So I have everything for my autocross/track only crx except the turbo. Will be going on a stock b16. Spool up time is important, I want instant power, but don't need tons of power. Figuring 250 whp would be perfect.

Anybody have a setup like this, which turbo and AR would you go with? I'm thinking the GT2854R with its rated 170-270 would be best, some of those other gt28r's are rated up to 460 horse, which will be far too much.

 

You're on he wrong forum to ask about turbo sizing. Most here will likely try to talk you out of it all together and suggest you spend the money on more track time. If you're looking for a good, honest recommendation call Garrett and LISTEN. Too many people ignore good, practical advice about turbo sizing and assume its too conservative.

 

well the forced induction forum usually has a bunch of people trying to get high hp numbers. I just want like 250-300whp. Anybody autox and got a suggestion from a setup they own or drove?

 

get a stright t3 or a gt28rs you will not even come close to 460hp with a disco potato they make no power after 350whp and thats on a very efficient motor setup

 

just to add to that i think with either turbo above you will have plenty of wheel spin since it dosent take much exhaust gas to get them moving so i would invest in good tires a lsd traction bars maybe you should just go t3t4 57 trim you will make the power you are looking for easy and will still be able to make more later and it will spool later then the other two that will add in your traction for autox

 

A gt28rs as mentioned earlier would be perfect. .63AR would give about 250whp on a stock B16. For comparison, on a stock B18C1 the .82ar usually gives about 300-330whp on 1bar.

I'd definately not go for a t3t4. It's massively oversized for anything else but drag racing on any B-series motor IMO. Besides the GT series turbos have much better trancient/partial throttle response, which is excactly what you need for autocross.

 

^ i agree just giving him room to grow for later gt series have way better response but if he ever wants more power then that its going to turn into a big heat pump but it is your best choice a stright t3 will spool faster then anything but it will die off way before you want it to

 

autocross is not about max power.
you definitely want the widest power band you can get.

locally here in DC our friend K powered civic is killing everything in it's class. m3's, 400 hp evo.

i've given up my build of a turbo civic for autox. my friends turbo civic we built is fast. huge powerband. 210whp, 230wtq. it's just a bit hard to properly modulate.
And i wanna track my car too. i'm just not looking forward to any reliability issues with a turbo track car. not to mention extra money for proper cooling system, oil cooler, etc etc , that you can get away without on most mild n/a setups.
if you had the money, an N/A K20 would be the way to go for autox. and 275/35/15 hoosiers up front.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridmoments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">autocross is not about max power.
you definitely want the widest power band you can get.

locally here in DC our friend K powered civic is killing everything in it's class. m3's, 400 hp evo.

i've given up my build of a turbo civic for autox. my friends turbo civic we built is fast. huge powerband. 210whp, 230wtq. it's just a bit hard to properly modulate.
And i wanna track my car too. i'm just not looking forward to any reliability issues with a turbo track car. not to mention extra money for proper cooling system, oil cooler, etc etc , that you can get away without on most mild n/a setups.
if you had the money, an N/A K20 would be the way to go for autox. and 275/35/15 hoosiers up front.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What turbo was on that k powered civic? After looking at all the JR dynos I can get a hold of, i'm thinking that's maybe the way to go, instant power when you step on it, and 140-160 tq right at 3000rpm. Now that's money for an autocross crx gutted to 1900 with me in it. I'm still searching for best turbo info for autox though, cuz i've got everything but the turbo.

 

I'd be afraid of a turbo FWD car on autocross, honestly. Understeer is going to suck.

I road raced with a GT2871R on a B18C5 for a while. That turbo was awesome and highly recommend it. Maybe the disco potato would be a little better for the B16.

 

The K-powered Civic is NA. I think's it's a K20 variant but I could be wrong. Anyway that thing is fast!! He also comes to smaller events where he generally puts down FTD.


Modified by DrSeuss at 1:31 PM 5/13/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by legomytego &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^ i agree just giving him room to grow for later gt series have way better response but if he ever wants more power then that its going to turn into a big heat pump but it is your best choice a stright t3 will spool faster then anything but it will die off way before you want it to </TD></TR></TABLE>
See, that's the "bigger is always better" attitude that makes for poor turbo selection and slow throttle response. He didn't ask about a turbo that would give him room to grow...

He said: Will be going on a stock b16. Spool up time is important, I want instant power, but don't need tons of power. Figuring 250 whp would be perfect.

Keep in mind, were talking about a 1.6 liter engine. The gt28rs/disco potato unit was designed for a 2.0 liter engine. So its oversized on a stock B16 to begin with...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
See, that's the "bigger is always better" attitude that makes for poor turbo selection and slow throttle response. He didn't ask about a turbo that would give him room to grow...

He said: Will be going on a stock b16. Spool up time is important, I want instant power, but don't need tons of power. Figuring 250 whp would be perfect.

Keep in mind, were talking about a 1.6 liter engine. The gt28rs/disco potato unit was designed for a 2.0 liter engine. So its oversized on a stock B16 to begin with...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i read what he said but a $1200 dollor turbo that he cant do **** with later is no good just looking out for him you always want more you dont have to run a t3t4 at max boost and i hope i dont have to go into how turbos work he could run 10 psi from it i really think it would be better for autocross then a 28rs its going to make boost as soon as he is on the gas and just spin and make it hard to control instant power in front wheel drive means tire smoke thats y some people run bigger turbos and use the lag they make for traction. stop thinking about how much power the two turbos make and think about how they would work for him na would work best but thats not the route he wants to go so i guess i was wrong for telling him a t3 or gt28rs now that i think about it either way good luck

 

by the way with hondas great volumetric efficiency we spool turbos pretty well there is not much diff in spool on a small turbo like that between a 1.6 and 1.8 you wouldent notice it especially if you haven had boost before we are not talking about spooling a 35r up right ?

 

Prepare to be squarely beaten by a old, lowered Civic running a stock engine and experience.

If you're doing this for fun, fine. If you're doing it to win top time of day at the autocross, you'll absolutely lose. Don't believe me? Go to the autocross now and watch the na vs. turbo car lap times, then make your decision.

FWIW, I plan on turboing my next project, but I already know it's going to suck at autocross harder than a $5 ho. For HPDE though, I think it'll be loads of fun; not necessarily the fastest, but loads of fun, and that's what it's all about for me.

You just have to ask yourself what your priorities are.


Modified by kb58 at 1:04 PM 5/13/2008

 

Well I don't like to be spanked and in my area we don't have super serious autocrosses but they are still competetive.

I want to basically have a jackson racing kit, but I have everything for a turbo kit already and thought I might try that out first.

Most jr kits I've seen have 140 to 160 tq at 3000rpm, most don't make over 180 tq at max tq, whereas turbos will make more than that, but at autocross I'm rarely between 7000 and 9000, so peak power from a turbo isn't utilized. Basically gotta figure out what small turbo will spool awesome, make around 10psi and 230-250whp and have not much room to grow because then I've got a turbo too big, and coulda gotten a smaller turbo to spool quicker have better response and made same power.

 

get a stright t3 super60 it will make what you want prolly 250 and nothing more its pretty much as small as you can get
http://www.spoolinperformance.....html

 

Ah, now you're considering a supercharger? That's a different kettle of fish. You'll do much better with that than a turbo... though you'll still get beat by experience.

Take your car, as-is, to the autocross, find the best driver there and have them drive your car. The day you can beat his/her time in your car is the day you should consider adding a supercharger.

 

I was the guy that suggegsted you post in the road race forum.

I agree with kb58. An autocross is more about the driver and car setup than power.

I occasionally autocross for fun. I have "project" Civic has been N/A, JRSCed, and turboed. For a dedicated autocross car I would go with the JRSC if you absolutely needed something to tinker with. The JRSC is far easier to modulate power coming out of turns.

My car is equipped with a Quaife and with the turbo installed I still have a hard time with power on understeer. I also have a Jetta with the 1.8T, same problem. Both have fairly small turbo with great response but....no or little power and then hold on!

 

I've always been considering a supercharger. And i understand seat time is important blah blah, but being in Street Mod cuz I have a gutted crx with suspension and a b swap, I might as well be in Street Mod with the same setup and more power.

As i said before, a buddy has a LHT S300 Stock b16 in a 99si on street tires, my crx with stock b16 and race tires, same progress suspension, I beat him by about .5 seconds each autox. So his extra power and my race tires and about a 600lb weight difference make about a .5 difference in my favor.

If I had his kind of power with my race tires and 600lbs lighter in my crx, i'd be WAY faster.

The moded EVO's and one DSM are the only thing that beat me in my class., Due to the limiting setups of our autox locations in my area, we often race at circle tracks which can tend to have some long straight sections where 300whp always smokes my 170crank hp b16.

I already have intercooler, piping, downpipe, exhaust, injectors, fuel pump, turbo manifold, hondata s300 and msd ignition, but my turbo with this kit is WAY TOO BIG. So I thought i'd try and find out what the best small turbo to go with would be, But if you guys all agree that at an autox there is no turbo that will give me the response, power, and consistency of a JRSC, then I'll just wait, sell my turbo **** and get a jrsc kit for next season.

Anybody disagree and think there is "A" turbo that will mimic the JRSC characteristics that I like?


Modified by rice is nice at 9:31 AM 5/14/2008

 

I'll let other chime in but, I doubt you'll be able to match the linear power delivery of the JRSC. Your peak numbers won't be as high but, the torque curve will be much flatter.

And, you'll want to find a Type R charger, M-45 vs. M-62.

 

wait you saying the m-45 is on the type R or the m-62 is? I thought only the d series motors came with a m-45 and all the b series came with m-62s?

 

The Type R and GSR kit scame with the M-62. The D, LS and I believe the B16 kits were M-45 but, the B16 head and Type R head have the same bolt pattern.

There's a JRSC thread in the forced induction forum (400+ pages) that can confirm the details. Also, rcmdandiels is a pretty good rerource. He's done some pretty extensive supercharger builds.

Hope that helps.

 

having driven an autocross car with a 2liter and a gt28rs, i can tell you al youll beed is about 6 psi. idrove this car on some silly **** like 18 pounds and its worthless (in the rain was just a throttle excersize). on r-comps it was marginally better. low boost and a good clutch type diff and some 275s up front and you'll be on to something. also, i dont know what boost controler you plan to use, but if u get osmething that has ramp speeds youll be able to play with that so it doesnt come in too hard and shock the tires.

 

you want instant power, look into a DSM T25. i run one on my LS. you wana talk about instant TQ WTF. i might get an EVO III to try to get some more spool time. the wheels just spin till 3rd