Ok.. I have been wanting to do this for years, and now, I have the chance to.. A friend and I (itr_ho) and going to build an ef drag car.. Track only... I dont want to hear any flames, just what do you think of this setup?

d16z6 - fully built, sleeved, etc.. most likely eagle rods, arias pistons.. ARP all around.. dont know what type of cam yet
DOHC ZC tranny - fully built (if anyone can think of a tranny with better gearing for boost, let me know)
ACT Lightened flywheel and a 6 puck, sprung track clutch (not sure what brand yet)
550-600cc injectors - I dont know what Im going to need for the power yet..
EVO 16g turbo - I already have one that needs a rebuild
hf manifold and adaptor
walbro 255 and aeromotive AFPR
fully gutted ef (or crx, maybe even a 4 door.. still havent fully decided.. Have you ever seen a gutted 4 door with a roll cage..oo oooOOOoo.. its so ill)
Full Polyurethane master kit - all bushings, motor mounts.. etc..
Roll cage - Mi Padre' knows a guy who can do it cheap
These sweet *** ebay racing seats, with 5 point harness
Gauges, short shifter, shiny honda emblem
Hoosier Drag slicks
Fuel cell - If you know where to get one that can mount where the stocker does, that would be nice...
Fluidyne skinny radiator
a nice ebay FMIC, with custom piping..
1g DSM BOV (or greddy type-s.. depends on money)
either full tein or skunk2 suspension.. on the fence with this one too
4 wheel disc conversion, slotter/drilled rotors, steel braided brake lines..
driveshaft shop performance axles

I have been wanting to build a d-series forever, and I have already had fun with quite a few b-series.. So I dont wanna hear "do a swap.. swap swap... why wont you swap "

I can make enough power in this car, with this motor, to hopefully get me in to the 11's.. Boosted, of course

Id like to be sitting at about 15-18 psi, making around 300... I can always upgrade to an s16g or 20g in the future if I need more air, and they will be bolt on for my setup.. I wanna show up to the track, and have them tell me I need a helmet and a roll cage.. lol

I still dont know which tranny would work best, and I have no clue where to get a performance rebuild kit for these tranny's.. I am going to rebuild it myself.. I have done transmissions before, so Im good..

And I do not know where to go with tuning, chrome or hondata, but that is for another thread..

What do you think about the hoosier slicks as opposed to the M/T's?

This is going to be a work in progress over the next year.. We are buying the chassis is about 6 weeks.. Of course, we are going to do all the body work, etc. while the car is sitting on jack stands, but not paint it till its all done.. Also thinking about ripping out the dash as well and welding a sheet metal panel in there for the gauges..

Any thing else I should think about?

 

also, what would be good size piping to run on this setup for the intercooler piping?

 

show us the money and we will show you the inetrest

 

I have the money.. I work provisioning for an ISP and own a business.. I have the money, so dont you worry..

Im asking for advice or tips, not someone to mock a question.. haha.. If you dont have anything constructive to say, then dont post.. Im not a rook in forums, let alone working on cars, so Im just wanting some feedback.. k?

So anyone with something useful to add, feel free to..

 

If this is just 1/4 mile car, why bother adding rear disc?

 

partly just to have them and they look nice, but mostly because I hate changing drum brakes.. Disc's stay cooler, etc.. Really, 70% if it is because I simply hate drum brakes.. haha

 

I am assuming you are only going to be running the bracket class?

 

Get a Zex cam and cam gear and dont bother with the short throw shifter. More trouble than they are worth.

 

i was totally looking at that same cam.. Why are the shortshifter's more trouble than they are worth? The work fine as long as the car isnt tweaked and the motor doesnt move (solid mounts)..

Si.. El Bracket racing

 

so.. Im thinking that this setup will do me well.. Any other ideas would be appreciated.. Unless you can see that I dont have all my bases covered, which I believe I do...

 

My suggestion is. spend the money on good parts, not homemade style with an HF manifold, etc. Build it with better parts and it will have more potential and you wont have to redo it again and again down the line.

Also, your build description sounds like a street car. why make it a "track car" when the components look like theyre just street type setup.

Dont fuel cell it, dont put a cage yet, dont cut it up, dont sheet metal anything, keep it a street car. There's no point in making it a full drag car with the what your doing to the engine. That setup is VERY mild and you dont need to go overboard with making it look like a "track" car. Keep it simple. You're thinking too much with this thing. At 300hp with that turbo setup, it'll be in the 12s, possibly high 11s. It'll look odd to see a full blown lookin car only hitting 11s, when street D16 setups can already do that.

 

like I said.. I dont want a street car.. and what is cheap about a full motor build, and a full tranny build? The manifold will do what its supposed to do for now, and a 16g @ 18 psi will flow about 450 cfm.. more than enough to push the car into the 350+ hp range

Gutting it will make it lighter, drag slicks will make it quicker off the line, and a roll cage will make it safe.. Im NOT building a street car.. i have one.. I dont need another

There is nothing wrong with the manifold.. It will suit it purpose, and its will be simple to replace when I need to..

The car will be running on race gas.. Not pump.. Its in now way a street car..

So where do you get the idea that, from all that I have listed, it will be streetable? Have you ever built a track car? I have built 2.. 89' IROC and a 91 AWD DSM...

I just wanted to get some opinions for parts and tips for the build, not someone trying to tell me that I shouldnt do that.. If I didnt gut it and put in a fuel cell, etc, I would be slower than I would with the same setup and gutted, so i still fail to see what is wrong with building a full out track car..

Do you usually spend your time telling people not to do things to their cars that you cannot do to yours? (your a sponsor, its a joke) haha

 

o yeah.. ExospeedAMcrx

What would I need to make this a full track car, as I dont see what I missed? I am on here to get advice on a track car.. money isnt really the object.. Its there.. But I want to do something different, and a d series is exactly that, and a proven perfomer, and relatively inexpensive when compared to its b-series counterpart.. Plus, i have fully built 4 b-series motors.. Just want a D

A I know a 16g isnt exactly the most advanced and powerful turbo, but show me another turbo that can out perform a slowboyracing.com evoIII 16g for $550 brand new, with a ported o2 housing, 1mm oversized wastegate, and polished..

"Dont fuel cell it, dont put a cage yet, dont cut it up, dont sheet metal anything, keep it a street car. There's no point in making it a full drag car with the what your doing to the engine."

^^ What is missing inside the motor? Strong rods, badass pistons, etc.. best of everything I can find for the internals.. What do you want me to do? Concrete the block? lol

i just dont understand why, doing all this stuff, would make it a street car..

 

International Race of Champions, baby!!! the IROC and the DSM were both high 10 sec cars.. IROC had a fully built and stroked 350 with a 150 shot, carb'd... hehehe.. the dsm was just rods, pistons, 20g, fuel, exhaust, tune..

I know its his job to guide folks.. plus, I like [freak]ing with people.. it keeps them on there toes.. haha.. No offense, ExospeedAMcrx...

I posted on here, so i can find out what I am missing, not to get told to build a street car instead of a track car, which is what I am after.. Suggestions for a TRACK car are what I need..

Really, if my setup without gutting, cutting, fuel cell, etc, can hit 11's, then going ***** out should put me closer to 10's... and thats what I want.. ***** to the walls speed... with a D.. lol.. And its totally possible...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJYoshaBYD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">like I said.. I dont want a street car.. and what is cheap about a full motor build, and a full tranny build? The manifold will do what its supposed to do for now, and a 16g @ 18 psi will flow about 450 cfm.. more than enough to push the car into the 350+ hp range

Gutting it will make it lighter, drag slicks will make it quicker off the line, and a roll cage will make it safe.. Im NOT building a street car.. i have one.. I dont need another

There is nothing wrong with the manifold.. It will suit it purpose, and its will be simple to replace when I need to..

The car will be running on race gas.. Not pump.. Its in now way a street car..

So where do you get the idea that, from all that I have listed, it will be streetable? Have you ever built a track car? I have built 2.. 89' IROC and a 91 AWD DSM...

I just wanted to get some opinions for parts and tips for the build, not someone trying to tell me that I shouldnt do that.. If I didnt gut it and put in a fuel cell, etc, I would be slower than I would with the same setup and gutted, so i still fail to see what is wrong with building a full out track car..

Do you usually spend your time telling people not to do things to their cars that you cannot do to yours? (your a sponsor, its a joke) haha </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJYoshaBYD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">o yeah.. ExospeedAMcrx

What would I need to make this a full track car, as I dont see what I missed? I am on here to get advice on a track car.. money isnt really the object.. Its there.. But I want to do something different, and a d series is exactly that, and a proven perfomer, and relatively inexpensive when compared to its b-series counterpart.. Plus, i have fully built 4 b-series motors.. Just want a D

A I know a 16g isnt exactly the most advanced and powerful turbo, but show me another turbo that can out perform a slowboyracing.com evoIII 16g for $550 brand new, with a ported o2 housing, 1mm oversized wastegate, and polished..

"Dont fuel cell it, dont put a cage yet, dont cut it up, dont sheet metal anything, keep it a street car. There's no point in making it a full drag car with the what your doing to the engine."

^^ What is missing inside the motor? Strong rods, badass pistons, etc.. best of everything I can find for the internals.. What do you want me to do? Concrete the block? lol

i just dont understand why, doing all this stuff, would make it a street car..</TD></TR></TABLE>


You come in here asking for advice from people. They give you advice and you get all pissed off. No offence but I read through your list and to me it sounds like a joke. You will not be able to run any class except for bracket. So you are going to have a gutted civic going high 11's or low 12's looking like it should go 9's. The person you insulted i am sure has a lot more expereince in building drag cars then you. You can clearly see that by the way you talk. Care to tell us what is going to be in your fully built tranny?


Any btw it is not hard to make a v-8 go tens. You are going to learn alot trying to make your drag car go tens with that setup.

 

The reason I said what I said was because i've cut up a car in the past. an EF actually. And the past 5 or so years, we've had our own SFWD street class turbo car. And learning from that, you can go fast without tearing up a good decent car. When I "raced out" that EF, I couldnt turn back. It was a waste of a car, when it didnt really need to go that extreme. We also have a Hot Rod "full race car" that's just sitting collecting dust now too because its just a track car. I'm just anti-cutting up cars because I wasted my own personal car that I enjoyed so much but now its useless. I guess part of my advice is from frustration from my own car. haha.

Don't think I'm putting you down, Im just speaking from experience and sharing what I've gone through. As far as the engine setup. I've seen people go that route dozens of times and what happens after a few months, they end up calling us and they want to upgrade the manifold they have, getting a better turbo, etc.

You're a racer, you're always going to want more than what you have. To build a 300hp setup, its easy to end up wanting more in a very short amount of time. Alot of us on here have rebuilt our cars multiple times in the last 5-6 years. It was ok to make 400hp before. Rebuilt the setup to make 600hp. Then the 600hp isnt enough again, so we got a diff turbo setup to make 750. now thats not enough again, we have to redo the whole car to make 900hp. My speculation is, you're going to want more. Take the time to spend just a little more, to increase your setup's potential to make 500hp. Its only a few parts.
But then again, you dont have to listen to me. I have no experience at all.

 

well.. about the tranny, if you "read" my list, you would see that I was asking what parts I should use.. and if you read the rest, you would see that I was [freak]ing with him..

And no one here has yet to tell me what in my list sounds like a joke?

"You are going to learn alot trying to make your drag car go tens with that setup."
soooo... what is bad about the setup? You all keep saying that it wont work, but the only thing "ghetto" about the setup is the manifold..

I love how more people here criticize instead of helping..

Keep posting "your setup sucks" or "you are going to be slow for all that", and you will still not be answering my questions.. What is wrong with the setup, so that I can correct it?

Everyone has a [freak]ing opinion, but no suggestions

Again, what am I missing? I want a track car, and you say not to gut it? Why? more weight is good? No fuel cell? More Weight is good? manifold? it wont spool the turbo, or what? Cause I can get a tubular manifold..

And that turbo can make more HP than you think.. Just cause its not a ball bearing turbo doesnt mean it cant float.. I made a 2900 lb dsm hit 10's with a turbo just a lil bit bigger than that...

soooo.. anything helpful that ANYONE would like to add? I cant stand getting on a forum with an idea, and getting nothing but criticism.. This is forum for cars, not a kill someones idea instead of helping them site...

 

ExospeedAMcrx

^^ THANK YOU!!!! I was thinking about that.. I really appreciate the advice..

I know I am going to want more power in the future.. and thats why Im leaving myself open to a few turbo upgrades.. the piping isnt a problem.. Im pretty handy with fab work.. If I use the evo16g I have, then I can always go to the super 16g, and the 20g.. Then If I decide at 400 hp I need more (which I probably will), then I will upgrade to a different type of turbo setup..

What is wrong with the engine? What is a good CR to be at for this motor with boost? Good head gasket? I think that the motor will be very solid.. building a motor isnt hard, but picking the right ingredients to put in is.. but the only thing that I can see everyone looking at and laughing is the 16g and the hf manifold.. Which isnt laughable, because 16g's are great turbo's, and make great power..

I put money on it if I would have said a precision turbo or something like that, I would be getting props.. People love brand names..

 

Well for starters your injectors and turbo are to way to small. If you going to make it a track car how fast do you wanna go? You dont need a cage if u wanna run 11.50 and up. I guess before i can say anymore, i wanna know how fast do you wanna go. Ohh and if you wanna make power get rid of that mani and get a extremely good port and polish on the head cause thats the flaw in our D motors.

 

i gotta get to work, but here's a quick upgrade from what you already planned.

tubular, or ramhorn style manifold. turbo you had was decent or any other t3/t4 type manifold, maybe 60-1 if its just a drag car.

slicks, go with M&H. block setup is cool eagle rods with arias pistons will do the job.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ExospeedAMcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i gotta get to work, but here's a quick upgrade from what you already planned.

tubular, or ramhorn style manifold. turbo you had was decent or any other t3/t4 type manifold, maybe 60-1 if its just a drag car.

slicks, go with M&H. block setup is cool eagle rods with arias pistons will do the job.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks.. I though that the block would be cool to make alot of HP.. Eagle rods are dope..

I will for sure upgrade the manifold to a tubular.. I think that the 16g will still be cool for now.. but I will for sure upgrade the manifold..

M&H slicks it is..

See? This is what I was looking for? he told me what is wrong, and now I know to just upgrade the turbo, the manifold, and the slicks..

What about valvetrain? What do you guys suggest for springs, retainers, valves, etc.. I was thinking ferrea or skunk2.. What do the faster guys run?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j-bird20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well for starters your injectors and turbo are to way to small. If you going to make it a track car how fast do you wanna go? You dont need a cage if u wanna run 11.50 and up. I guess before i can say anymore, i wanna know how fast do you wanna go. Ohh and if you wanna make power get rid of that mani and get a extremely good port and polish on the head cause thats the flaw in our D motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know the injectors will be small if I go below 600.. I used 650's and the same evoIII turbo that I am going to use on this ef, in my 10 sec DSM, so I think that the turbo will be more than enough power for now.. And yeah.. the manifold is going bye bye...

 

how fast do u wanna go my friend? How much power do you wanna start off at?

 

mid to low 11's to start, then probably 10's... 10's are my ultimate goal (and a very nice sounding number, as well) lol

I would like to, right off the bat, start to hit 10's... I will for sure need a bigger turbo in the future, but if that same exact turbo can get a car that weighs 1100 lbs heavier than a gutted hatch in to the 10's, then I think I should be able to puke out about low 11's.. but then again, I cannot speculate or bench race, because it just doesnt work like that..

The main thing is the turbo.. That is going to ultimately determine how much power I can make.. So 450 cfm will be enough to make over 350 hp, so i guess Im aiming between 300-350 hp on this turbo, which isnt unreasonable.. I have seen many hatches (all street though) using these mitsu turbo's, and they boogie.. And, like I said, the ease of upgrading to a bigger 20g (that makes ~600 cfm, If I remember correctly) from a 16g (450) is bolt on happiness, because every thing is in the same place, but its just bigger..

Any other suggestions, besides change the turbo? Like, what type of head components to use? Bore out the valves and go oversized?

OOO YEAH.. What about aftermarket intake manifolds and throttle bodies? What are some good ones?

 

If you wanna go low 11's or 10's with a D-Series motor, your gonna have to make over 400 WHP. As for turbo sizing, the most common turbo is the T3/T4 57 trim. Since you said money is an problem then u can go baller status and go with a Garret or Precision Gt3076R or 71R..or u can use my personal favorite as of yesterday, the Borg Warner S258 or S256. You can use any one of those turbos and like 25-30 pounds of boost