i have a 95 gsr and when i shift from 1st to second it drops all the way bak to 5700rpm is this normal for a gsr to do this or is it just my gearin? maybe this is the wrong spot to place this in..

 

Your transmission is working just right, 5700 is exactly where it should be.

 

no i shift at 3-3.5k

but when driving more aggressive, i shift a little before redline, about ~7800

i have a gsr

 

well if you're going for speed, try and shift into lift, if its a gsr that is

 

I usually shift at 3000-3400rpm...

 

so if i wanted to shift more speed at what rpm sohuld i shift at on 1st gear? 8100?

 

If you want fast times/optimum performance the game to play with B18Cs is: hit the redline, beat the rev limiter. Shifting even 100-200 RPMs sooner will slow you down more than it would in most any other car. Its tough in the B18Cs because the rev limiter is sooo close to redline. I had a little more leniency with my B17A since the limiter was a good 200-300 rpms past redline (on the stock tach). I shifted 200 rpm short into 4th with that car at the track and my trap speed dropped a full mph. Doesn't sound like much but I could do that same thing in my VR6 with no change in speed.

 

Everyone had always complained about the tranny in the GSR being a little off where the B16 tranny had closer and more linear ratios. If you land around 5700 after your shift, you're still in valve lift mode.

 

My car isn't set up the same as yours, but i shift at ~8500rpm in every gear. The difference is that my turbo GSR makes power through redline and shifting earlier would be a bit of a waste. The best way to determine your shift points would be to dyno the car and see where your powerband starts and ends. There's no point in revving further if you're losing power.

 

I will disagree with that a little. It is almost always better to go past the power peak, then when you shift you will fall right into the power band. Shifting right at peak power usually drops you down to low on the rev range and you have a moment before the car is back in the meat of the power band. In a 95 GSR though, shifting before redline is a mistake. As someone else here noted, the B18C1 gearing is longer then both B16 and B17 tranmissions, so without a perfect 1-2 shift you will fall off cam (below 5700).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DB2GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will disagree with that a little. It is almost always better to go past the power peak, then when you shift you will fall right into the power band. Shifting right at peak power usually drops you down to low on the rev range and you have a moment before the car is back in the meat of the power band. In a 95 GSR though, shifting before redline is a mistake. As someone else here noted, the B18C1 gearing is longer then both B16 and B17 tranmissions, so without a perfect 1-2 shift you will fall off cam (below 5700). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you!

Shifting AT your power band is like pulling out right when you...nevermind. It doesn't make sense! Atleast not for lower gears.

When you shift at your power band, you put your car into a bog for the next gear. It's much faster and easier to rev out a lower gear a few hundred RPM past redline than it is to bog a HIGH gear a long time before the power band starts up again.

The GSR's gearing sucks. 5700 is out of it's power band by atleast 1k-1500rpm, IIRC. Revving out in the lower gear, you'll only have to go a few hundred RPM and at most 1k outside of the realm of the power band.

Also, look at a dyno graph. The peak power is at? what? 7kish? The power band AFTER 7k is still higher than the numbers before 5700RPM, right?

So by revving it out, you make more power than the corresponding higher gear...and you only have to be out of the power band briefly.

On a high strung car like most hondas, it makes no sense not to shift at redline...unless you're in like 4th gear or something. Gear spacing becomes closer in higher gears. It may not be worth revving out 4th...but 1st thru 3rd is def. worth it.

OP: The gearing sucks in a GSR...so 5700rpm is just about right. The B16s trans is much nicer for the 1st to 2nd shift.

 

Yep, totally correct, just didn't feel like typing it all. You almost want to spin a little going into 2nd in a B18C1 just to make sure the revs don't fall below 5700, it's that close. If I remember correctly, B16 and B17s had the exact same gearing except for 1st gear, where the YS1 in a B17 was a hair shorter. I could keep up with all my friends in B18Cs with my B17 to a point, based solely on my better gearing. I know several guys who put in a V-AFC just to change the crossover point on the B18C so that it wasn't so critical to nail the 8000+ ,before the rev limiter shift you needed to stay on cam.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DB2GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, totally correct, just didn't feel like typing it all. You almost want to spin a little going into 2nd in a B18C1 just to make sure the revs don't fall below 5700, it's that close. If I remember correctly, B16 and B17s had the exact same gearing except for 1st gear, where the YS1 in a B17 was a hair shorter. I could keep up with all my friends in B18Cs with my B17 to a point, based solely on my better gearing. I know several guys who put in a V-AFC just to change the crossover point on the B18C so that it wasn't so critical to nail the 8000+ ,before the rev limiter shift you needed to stay on cam. </TD></TR></TABLE>

VTEC is at 4500 on a B18C1 with stock ECU. So they didn't have to change the crossover at all.

The B16A has shorter gears all together. The (USDM) ITR trans has shorter 1-3 and 4-5 are the same as the GSR.

 

with a stock ECU and IM you have to worry about the IABs that kick in right around 5700 RPM, regardless of where vtec kicks in the real power band isnt until at least 6200 rpm. I am not a fan of going past 8200 rpm so my solution was to get the b16 tranny with better gearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crxstylin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with a stock ECU and IM you have to worry about the IABs that kick in right around 5700 RPM, regardless of where vtec kicks in the real power band isnt until at least 6200 rpm. I am not a fan of going past 8200 rpm so my solution was to get the b16 tranny with better gearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

 

B serious is correct on almost everything. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The B16A has shorter gears all together. The (USDM) ITR trans has shorter 1-3 and 4-5 are the same as the GSR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ITR and GSR do not have the same 4-5 gears. B16's and ITR(USDM) have the same gears except for 5th and FD. The GSR and ITR have different gears(regardless of the gear), but have the same FD. If you were to take B16 gears and mate it with a GSR FD, it would be a USDM ITR tranny besides 5th gear and the LSD. The ITR 5th gear is shorter than the B16.

GSR:1)3.230 2)1.900 3)1.360 4)1.034 5)0.787 FD)4.400
ITR: 1)3.230 2)2.105 3)1.458 4)1.107 5)0.848 FD)4.400
B16:1)3.230 2)2.105 3)1.458 4)1.107 5)0.875 FD)4.266

GSR gearing does suck 1st to 2nd it bogs even shifting at redline, my car makes power until ~8200-8300, so on my GSR tranny I would shift at 9k going into 2nd(at the track) so that it would drop me just below my peak power point, and shift at ~8500 every gear after. Now I'm running a B16 tranny and the 1st to 2nd shift is a lot smoother, and no need for me to rev out to 9k anymore. The longer 1st gear of the B16 though is noticeable over the GSR. Soon anyways this will all be changed when the JDM 4.7 FD gets dropped in anyways. My VTEC is set at 5300, when I dyno'ed I had it at 5k just to see and it dipped 5hp before it started making power, was too low for my compression/IM/etc...5300 is also a smoother transition. Obviously my car isn't stock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PACT man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B serious is correct on almost everything.

The ITR and GSR do not have the same 4-5 gears. B16's and ITR(USDM) have the same gears except for 5th and FD. The GSR and ITR have different gears(regardless of the gear), but have the same FD. If you were to take B16 gears and mate it with a GSR FD, it would be a USDM ITR tranny besides 5th gear and the LSD. The ITR 5th gear is shorter than the B16.

GSR:1)3.230 2)1.900 3)1.360 4)1.034 5)0.787 FD)4.400
ITR: 1)3.230 2)2.105 3)1.458 4)1.107 5)0.848 FD)4.400
B16:1)3.230 2)2.105 3)1.458 4)1.107 5)0.875 FD)4.266

GSR gearing does suck 1st to 2nd it bogs even shifting at redline, my car makes power until ~8200-8300, so on my GSR tranny I would shift at 9k going into 2nd(at the track) so that it would drop me just below my peak power point, and shift at ~8500 every gear after. Now I'm running a B16 tranny and the 1st to 2nd shift is a lot smoother, and no need for me to rev out to 9k anymore. The longer 1st gear of the B16 though is noticeable over the GSR. Soon anyways this will all be changed when the JDM 4.7 FD gets dropped in anyways. My VTEC is set at 5300, when I dyno'ed I had it at 5k just to see and it dipped 5hp before it started making power, was too low for my compression/IM/etc...5300 is also a smoother transition. Obviously my car isn't stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought the 92-00 (hydraulic) B16A had a 4.4FD. Isnt the OBD0 cable B16A the one with the 4.26??

 

I think it's the cable B16's that have the 4.4, the B16 gearing that I put are from the service manual from a 99 Si, the tranny that I have in my car. All the gearing I put are from the USDM manuals, 94 GSR, 01 ITR, and 99 Si. Not some website.

I know the cable B16's are really short, shorter than the newer B16's.

93 GSR cable gears:
1)3.307 2)2.105 3)1.459 4)1.107 5)0.875 FD)4.400

I can only get gearing from the manual from the USDM vehicles.

 

5700 is good for this car right about secondary vtec or whatever you wanna call it, but i would shift right at 8100 if you want to maximize performance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TonyRomo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5700 is good for this car right about secondary vtec or whatever you wanna call it, but i would shift right at 8100 if you want to maximize performance</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is no secondary VTEC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PACT man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it's the cable B16's that have the 4.4, the B16 gearing that I put are from the service manual from a 99 Si, the tranny that I have in my car. All the gearing I put are from the USDM manuals, 94 GSR, 01 ITR, and 99 Si. Not some website.

I know the cable B16's are really short, shorter than the newer B16's.

93 GSR cable gears:
1)3.307 2)2.105 3)1.459 4)1.107 5)0.875 FD)4.400

I can only get gearing from the manual from the USDM vehicles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol then Honda has some RANDOM gearing. It's like they threw numbers into a hat and said "sure, why not".

 

When I had a stock redline shifting at 8k was a must, I had a big laggy turbo and was forced to shift at max everytime or the car would fall flat on its face. I am tuned now to 10k rpm but I set my rev limiter to 9200, not because power is falling off but I dont feel the need to wind my motor out that high. I am also running a B16 1,2,3 and GSR 4,5 with a 4.40 FD and it rips great on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There is no secondary VTEC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that why i put "or whatever you want to call it", everyone knows what your talking about when you say that tho.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TonyRomo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that why i put "or whatever you want to call it", everyone knows what your talking about when you say that tho.</TD></TR></TABLE>

...yeah but that still doesn't come close to the real name of the 5700RPM phenomenon. It has nothing to do with VTEC, so if people know it by "secondary VTEC", they know it by the wrong name. People who dont know whats what may learn the wrong name that way as well.

If your name was Steve, but people knew you by Dave, it doesn't make Dave the right name. Also, when people call you Dave, other people that dont know you start calling you Dave. Wouldn't that **** you off? I'd be pissed. I hate Daves.

It's easier to just call it what it is.

 

....wen i race i shift at 7800 - 8000...i just try my best not to go in redline...

i'm afraid that no matter how long youre in redline...if you get in it...your engine is blown...

either way, i just don't wanna take a chance...its better safe than sorry you know??