im in the process of deciding a gsr motor fully built or should i just get a k20, i heard there is a big price difference, also should i do a 5 lug swap or just keep my 4 lug

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmgeezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im in the process of deciding a gsr motor fully built or should i just get a k20, i heard there is a big price difference, also should i do a 5 lug swap or just keep my 4 lug</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you already have the GSR? If not, you could piece together a pretty decent B20Vtec setup for the price of a complete swap, kinda.

$2000 assembled block
$1500 head w/ cams and porting
$1200 tranny/clutch
$ 500 axels/ linkage/misc.
---------
$5200-$6000 for a decent B series setup from scratch. pending on new/used parts chosen....


Stock K series swap can total $6500-8000. It will be slower than a build B but have more potential....

My .02 cents, figures are rough as im not going to list every nut and bolt.

 

And 5 lug is for autoX/road racing/show cars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmgeezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im in the process of deciding a gsr motor fully built or should i just get a k20, i heard there is a big price difference, also should i do a 5 lug swap or just keep my 4 lug</TD></TR></TABLE>

keep the 4 lug, if you already have the gsr you can sell the longblock, buy an H22 longblock and a QSD H2B kit. use your Gsr trans with the H22 motor. basic setup will be right at about 190-200 whp. and the swap is pretty cheap.

H2b kit - 800
H22 longblock - 600 - 900
use all your B series axles / linkage / halfshaft/ mounts/

Cheap swap that makes great power... just my recommendation.

 

&lt;------- 12.1s on stock motor H2B


You have to decide on what you want to do with the car. If it is eventually going to be an all out all motor race car- go K. in the end nothing compares to an all out K build.

There was just a post on here that someone made 260 with a stock block and cams k20. thats crazy.

B series is always a great fall back and a simple b20vtec can make nice power but if you are looking at racing it competitively then you will have to go big or go home simply put.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2fastGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">&lt;------- 12.1s on stock motor H2B


You have to decide on what you want to do with the car. If it is eventually going to be an all out all motor race car- go K. in the end nothing compares to an all out K build.

There was just a post on here that someone made 260 with a stock block and cams k20. thats crazy.

B series is always a great fall back and a simple b20vtec can make nice power but if you are looking at racing it competitively then you will have to go big or go home simply put.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think that k20 dyno was at churchs dynapack.. its a high reading dyno.. car that made 265 there couldnt break faster than 12.2's.. cx hatch..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmgeezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im in the process of deciding a gsr motor fully built or should i just get a k20, i heard there is a big price difference, also should i do a 5 lug swap or just keep my 4 lug</TD></TR></TABLE>

I learned nothing....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22crxpwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i think that k20 dyno was at churchs dynapack.. its a high reading dyno.. car that made 265 there couldnt break faster than 12.2's.. cx hatch.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

As you well know, there's so much more involved with going into the 11's than simply having a light car and high horspower motor. 12.2 is only one number.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As you well know, there's so much more involved with going into the 11's than simply having a light car and high horspower motor. 12.2 is only one number. </TD></TR></TABLE>

this is not the only car that dyno'd high hp #'s at churchs that don't perform like other cars on a dynojet...

That was just an example to say that people shouldn't get so hyped up on high dyno #'s!!!!

the car hooked up with 1.6 60's....

our car H2B on a dynojet only made 240 and its running 11.7's with high 1.7 60's...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22crxpwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think that k20 dyno was at churchs dynapack.. its a high reading dyno.. car that made 265 there couldnt break faster than 12.2's.. cx hatch.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It reads higher because it measures power at the hubs-without the inertia of the wheels and tires.
Just because a car is not running the times, does not mean that the power is not there. Driver/weight/chassis setup/track conditions/etc. all come into play.
I do agree that people should not get hung up on dyno numbers though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It reads higher because it measures power at the hubs-without the inertia of the wheels and tires.
Just because a car is not running the times, does not mean that the power is not there. Driver/weight/chassis setup/track conditions/etc. all come into play.
I do agree that people should not get hung up on dyno numbers though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know how your dyno measures power.. and i think your tuning has been very good for a lot of cars.. i've seen impressive #'s run with your tuning.. actually i was thinking of trying out a tune from you guys. although i don't think you tune Crome do you??

just like you and i both said. #'s don't mean everything unless they are 1/4 mile #'s..

 

Yes, we tune Crome
OP-K-series all the way if you have the funds

 

theres no comparison. You cant make a GSR do what you can make a kseries do.

 

hey guys..
so should a buy a mansion or condo??

*rolls eyes*

 

Like others said, you cannot really compare a gsr vs a k20a. Maybe a built b20 or a built h22.

I have to be honest though. You asking about the 5 lug vs the 4 lug while wondering about a k vs B setup makes me think that you might need to spend more time to research what you want do.

Horsepower vs 1/4 mile times is a whole different issue as well. Driver, car setup and proper size slicks can make a big difference. You cannot judge a motor just from a dyno unless you have a lot of dyno graphs from the same place.. and that is the good thing with churches. Even though it reads high compared to the average dynojet it is a good tool for comparison where there are dozens of other cars that dyno at churches on a regular basis.

This short of argument can never be won really. Let me try to break this down for you.

Like people rooting for football team etc.. you have people that are proud of their K, B, H, D setups.

Let's go through the difference scenarios:

-B makes killer power and goes fast on the 1/4

Congrats, you have a K killer.

-B makes killer power and goes ok on the 1/4

Congrats, keep working on your driving

-K makes killer power and goes 11s

Congrats, with all that money spend I would be pissed if I didn;t go 11s. H2B h22 run the same times, why even go K?

-K makes killer power but goes slow on 1/4
Good power but the Ks are just hyped up. Get a h2b h22 ASAP!

-H22 h2b makes killer power and goes fast

K killer congrats!

-H22 h2v makes killer power and goes slow
Damn thats some power.. Improve that driving dude!!

and so on...

With dozens of 300whp dynos on k24a motors, it is apparent that the K series is the best honda platform for someone that is starting out and can foresee that he or she is going to spend money to increase the power of the motor.

Shops will make money off labor no matter what motor you use. Since the K is the next big thing they will charge more money and quote higher.. but I have been doing K swaps for a while and I have to say that if you do your research and do your own labor, it will cost you as much as used b18c5 swap with the necessary parts. H22 is cheaper in stock form but in no way makes anywhere close the same amount of power. A built h22 with the right amount of stroke and bore, induction, exhaust, cams, ported head and compression will make killer power. Noone will argue with this since in the end it is all about displacement and head CFM. The real advantage of the K series apart for displacement and high flowing heads is that due to the variable cam timing they can run a big cam and still be able to run larger cams and can take higher compression.

This whole building and tuning all motor honda motors for power is a sickness anyway you look at it. Sooner or later most of us will try to improve our setups no matter the motor we use. In the end I feel that we are all spending the same amount of money. It just takes more money up front to start a K then it does with a B or an H... but in the long run and after seeing people blow a lot of money on their setups to make 20whp extra power, I don;t think it matters that much.

 

i agree wit nikos. we a spendin money someway or another jus saerch around and see how much money u wanna spend.