hey everybody, this is my first post. i was wondering whether anyone knew about a roots blower kit for the s2000?

 

Vortech is good. My homie has one on his S..

 

yea i've heard some good things about those kits, but that's a centrifugal supercharger, not a roots type(like JRSC or what's on the new vette ZR1). I like roots blowers because they are so reliable. I work with them everyday on the porsches around the shop i work at, but have never seen a kit for the s2000(which could really benefit from the huge amount of low end torque that those units provide. Also i really like the power delivery which is extremely linear with the units. So like my post said...Does anybody know of a ROOTS type blower kit for the S2000?

 

Don't waste your time or money with a blower. Turbocharge it & be happy

 

turbo would be nice. But reliability is a big thing for me, and i'm not sure a i wanna spend the money necessary to maintain a turbo. also, i'm into autocross and eventually SCCA/NASA racing. and for that, i don't want any turbo lag, cause i don't want it to catch up to me mid corner. i am specifically looking for a ROOTS BLOWER. It is realiable; at our shop we've installed over 2500 of these units onto porsches, and i've only ever seen one that was trashed, and that's only cause the guy was driving it with no filter and he sucked up a piece of metal. good, reliable, cheap, linear power is the name of the game for me. So once again....anybody know of a roots blower kit for this car or of one that's currently in development?

 

I think you're looking at the wrong reasons for a roots-style blower.

You've got to look at the powerband of the s2000 and how/where it needs to be improved.

IMO a twin-screw style blower on an S2000 would be a less than perfect choice, and a complete waste of money.

Centrifugal blowers and turbos can be perfectly reliable if you do it right and have a good tune. Though, you can only go so long on stock s2000 internals, so that would be my biggest concern before whether centrifugal blower or turbo is reliable.

 

Read these and reconsider your choice of an SC vs a turbo setup.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=688120
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2283214

 

Thanks for the info...finally someone actually has and argument one way or another versus the guys who just say "go turbo it's cool". don't get me wrong. i'm not at all against turbos. The car we built in the shop as my boss's personal racecar is a twin turbocharged porsche 964 pushing 800+hp and he absolutely dominates more powerful cars all the time. I love this car cause it is such a beast. But my boss is one of those people with enough money that he can do anything he wants. I, on the other hand, am not that well off. That's one of the primary interests in the roots blower; it is very VERY easy to maintain and is extremely reliable. We've sold over 2500 roots blower units for the porsche 911 and boxter which both run high compression. All of these kits were for cars with stock internals, and with his setup, we've NEVER lost a motor because of the blower, EVER. This is a big contrast to all of the turbo cars that i've ever seen; even though they can be designed to be pretty reliable, i really don't have the money to risk blowing up my motor just cause i wanted to go fast. For me, reliability everyday is the biggest issue. it's fine with me that i might not get as much power with a supercharger as with a turbo because i'm not looking for huge numbers up high in the RPMs. I like the dyno comparo you have up but i'm still very interested to know what this car would do with a roots blower. we can see that there's a big difference between a turbo and a centrifugal supercharger both running the same boost, so i wonder what the power band would look like with the roots type. I like linear power delivery, so what's the best way to achieve this as safely, inexpensively, and reliably as possible?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i don't want any turbo lag, </TD></TR></TABLE>

turbo lag is a myth created by haters, a properly sized turbo will boost sooner and make more power than a roots blower, even at lower rpms... at the end of the day though you have to do what makes you happy, and if that means experimenting with roots to see how you like it, go for it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbo lag is a myth created by haters, a properly sized turbo will boost sooner and make more power than a roots blower, even at lower rpms... at the end of the day though you have to do what makes you happy, and if that means experimenting with roots to see how you like it, go for it </TD></TR></TABLE>

...and a properly sized and intercooled roots blower will come pretty close to that turbo setup on the high end, while killing it on the low end. Any turbo that boosts sooner than a roots blower and has the same peak boost reading is sure to run out of steam on the high end anyway.

A lot of the misinformation regarding roots blowers around here stems from the fact that most kits aren't intercooled. With a well-designed custom roots kit, like a custom turbo kit, you are bound to get better results. Yes turbos can make more top-end power. But some people like low-end torque as well. It's a matter of personal preference. Neither is necessarily "better" than the other.

 

thank you for that....yes a properly sized turbo can drasticly reduce lag. however what you're ignoring is my primary reason for being interested in this form of forced induction, RELIABILITY. a roots blower is never gonna blow up on you...if it does it just happens to be a crazy fluke of nature. I DO NOT have the money to be rebuilding my motor or turbo whenever something goes wrong. Yes i know everyday cars run turbos with no problem, but this is not an everyday application. All i was looking for was some information as to whether anybody had experimented with this sort forced induction for the s2000.

 

THANK YOU BORAT!!!!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by borat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

...and a properly sized and intercooled roots blower will come pretty close to that turbo setup on the high end, while killing it on the low end. Any turbo that boosts sooner than a roots blower and has the same peak boost reading is sure to run out of steam on the high end anyway.

A lot of the misinformation regarding roots blowers around here stems from the fact that most kits aren't intercooled. With a well-designed custom roots kit, like a custom turbo kit, you are bound to get better results. Yes turbos can make more top-end power. But some people like low-end torque as well. It's a matter of personal preference. Neither is necessarily "better" than the other.</TD></TR></TABLE> its a s2000. they have shitty tq. save time and money and but a turbo on it. i pulled the comptech kit off my s2k cause it was slow *** **** and the power band was just shitty

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thank you for that....yes a properly sized turbo can drasticly reduce lag. however what you're ignoring is my primary reason for being interested in this form of forced induction, RELIABILITY. a roots blower is never gonna blow up on you...if it does it just happens to be a crazy fluke of nature. I DO NOT have the money to be rebuilding my motor or turbo whenever something goes wrong. Yes i know everyday cars run turbos with no problem, but this is not an everyday application. All i was looking for was some information as to whether anybody had experimented with this sort forced induction for the s2000.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm glad you made your point rather clear so far about why you want what you want to achieve, but honestly, I'm still trying to find where it is "written" that turbos aren't reliable as opposed to a roots charger. You said yourself there are plenty of porsches in your facility that are twin turbocharged, and considering the amount of those that are turbocharged from the factory from both Porsche and other car makers, wouldn't you say that your assertions on turbocharger and reliability are rather... unfounded? I've had turbocharged (aftermarket and OEM) for over 18 years, and not ONE has gone out on me. It's more than the physics that look at "reliability", its all in how it was put together.

Enjoy whatever you decide, but to say that a turbocharged application is not reliable is just well, an uneducated statement, really....

Good luck..

 

All the blower kits that I've seen for the S2K's are centrifugal. That's not to say that you couldn't put a modified M90 on a S2k without too much difficulty, I just haven't seen it done yet. LMK if you decide to do it and maybe I can help.

Turbos are reliable (when implemented correctly), especially newer water-cooled ball bearing turbos, and you don't need a turbo timer with those. I've built a couple of DD turbo setups that have been very reliable DD's. People blow their turbo motors up because they can for the most part, this guy said it best:

http://s115271005.onlinehome.u...p.htm

Other factors like WG failure can be managed with boost cut, suffice to say that a safe, reliable turbo setup isn't too hard to build.

The stock S2K motor reacts very well to a decent-sized turbo making low boost. Turbos are essentially load driven and a high-CR motor will spool one relatively quickly for a nice flat torque curve. Check out Cody Loveland's turbo S2K on 7 PSI for an example of this type of setup, he road-raced it and said it was a lot of fun:



That said, it still won't be as linear when rolling on the throttle in the middle of a corner, but it should be manageable without having to sacrifice too much.

Of course if you're talking about autocross or SCCA, I wouldn't do either. You've already got a car that's pretty fast and very competitive in A Stock, why mess with it and put it in a modified class? I have seen one boosted in SM before, but it was running slower than a boosted '92 hatch in Atlanta (two good drivers), and you don't see them at big events high in SM, so I think that you're doing yourself more harm than good by boosting it so you can get beat by Civics and Evos in SM. Leave it NA, learn to drive, and clean up in AS. I've thought about ditching my DM hatch and just picking up a clean used S2K for AS myself, it would make my life a lot simpler.

 

Boost is boost... Doesn't matter how or where it comes from, it's HP & TQ that blows up a motor.

Slap on a blower in an S2000 with poor engine management, it will go through motors just like any bacdyard turbo setups that you commonly see (which is probably where you got the image as to why turbos seem less reliable). No boost fuel cut, no safety measures for overboosting means trouble.

If you want to get deep down to the specifics, a supercharger takes energy from the crank to drive it, thus, the actual HP/TQ output at the motor is usually higher than a turbo. A turbocharged engine has to combat against exhaust pressures, but can be easily managed with proper turbo sizing. Superchargers on the other hand, takes 10-15% of the engine's power to drive the SC to make boost.

We measure HP at the wheels, which means a 300 WHP/WTQ SC engine is effectively pushing equivalent to a 330 WHP/WTQ turbo motor in terms of internal stress. I hate to say it, supercharged engines are actually less reliable in the engine stress point of view. People blow motors on every form of boost, and you see more blown turbo motors just because there are more turbo motors out there. 90% of the guys on here are turbocharged.

 

Thanks for all your comments guys! like i said, i have nothing at all against turbos. And i'll even retract my modify my previous statement. Turbos can be nearly as realiable as a roots blower. But lets be serious here, a turbo will never be as reliable as the blower, even if it never blows, fins get worn down and it HAS to be rebuilt once in a while. on the other hand we have NEVER i repeat NEVER had a blower go on us. The one we did see was the driver's fault for driving with no filter. And even though the guy trashed it, Eaton/Magneson were so interested to see what hd happened, that they just sent a brand new blower free of charge, just so they could see the trashed one we had. i've never heard of geddy/hks/turbonetics/fullrace or anybody handing out free turbos just cause someone managed to blow one up. But like i said, i have nothing against turbo setups, i was just interested in this. Check out our website http://www.tpcracing.net Our newest release is our Posrche Cayman TURBO kit. This kit was developed for about 18 months before release. In that time the car has been to VIR and Summit Point more than once a week for a hard thrashing by my boss/racecar driver. On top of that, on the same set up it's been dyno'd well over 1000 times. that being said, with all of that beating, neither the turbo nor the engine let go once....although we did blow a lot of holes in our exhaust. Other than reliability, i have a real interest in the gobs of low end tq available with the blower. I am personally in no position to try to put together a blower setup for the car, however, i was interested to see if any of you smart guys had taken a shot at it. Also i never wanted to create a thread where people would take shots at each other....this was really just the first thing i could think of to post to fully activate my account. Thanks for your .02 cents everybody and keep it coming!!!!

 

you're nuts. the car/engine/turbo is only as reliable as the person using/working on it. the only time something catistrophical would happen is if there is some sort of engine faliure/ ETC ETC... if your turbo wheels get chewed up, chances are whatever chewed the wheels up, also went ape **** inside of your engine..


ALSO for what its worth ..... i have a t4/74mm turbo on a b series engine, that makes more low end power/ power sooner than a t3/67mm turbo did on that very same engine. riddle me

 

come on guys i've already conceeded that yes a turbo setup, when properly executed, CAN be very reliable. However this reliabilty is something you only get with constant maintenance and upkeep. once in a while, it needs to be completely rebuilt. Also, (this isn't the turbo's fault) but i might find high boost a little too tempting, and we all know that high boost really does increase the risk of something going wrong. i think some of you might not understand me....i'm not looking for the biggest power increase...i'm looking for reliabilty and ease of care first and foremost. My second interest is instant tq. Third, i jsut thought of this...i don't wanna be pareading around with a turbo intercooler in my front bumper....it just make me stand out to the police that much more. On the other hand, a liquid/air intercooler more commonly found in supercharger setups, is completely invisible on the car's exterior. So like i've said a couple times....i'm just lookin for a little info as to whether anybody had tried this out....i'm NOT looking to be sold on a turbo. I value everybody's input as long as you back up your argument with some reason!!! don't just tell me "go turbo dude". Thanks for taking the time to post your comments guys!

 

take it from an ex-turbo 350z owner.

the only thing torque at low rpms will get you is tirespin. In damp conditions I was able to break the tires loose in 3rd gear at 30mph. Not fun.

6th gear at 70mph on the interstate in rain, slam the gas, and the car could get sideways in a second. Not fun at all.

Besides, think about this: Do you ever race below 3000rpm? When racing through the gears, does a redline shift to the next gear ever put you below 3000rpm?

 

Don't worry about people taking shots at each other. Any thread on H-T about superchargers automatically becomes a flame-fest, that's just H-T. I think it's a rule.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bpowered &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">come on guys i've already conceeded that yes a turbo setup, when properly executed, CAN be very reliable. However this reliabilty is something you only get with constant maintenance and upkeep. once in a while, it needs to be completely rebuilt. Also, (this isn't the turbo's fault) but i might find high boost a little too tempting, and we all know that high boost really does increase the risk of something going wrong. i think some of you might not understand me....i'm not looking for the biggest power increase...i'm looking for reliabilty and ease of care first and foremost. My second interest is instant tq. Third, i jsut thought of this...i don't wanna be pareading around with a turbo intercooler in my front bumper....it just make me stand out to the police that much more. On the other hand, a liquid/air intercooler more commonly found in supercharger setups, is completely invisible on the car's exterior. So like i've said a couple times....i'm just lookin for a little info as to whether anybody had tried this out....i'm NOT looking to be sold on a turbo. I value everybody's input as long as you back up your argument with some reason!!! don't just tell me "go turbo dude". Thanks for taking the time to post your comments guys!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think that people are trying to "sell you" on a turbocharger for your particular application. I do think that with everything else constant, though opinions vary, boost is boost. What I guess many are trying to help assist you with is that your particular experience is not necessarily the rule, especially with a generalization of the term "reliability". I'm glad you've never had to worry about any particular issues with the superchargers that you've used, but please do not get the generalization that good service and rebuildability only occurs with superchargers, and therefore makes it more reliable and more maintanence free. I think that's all that people are simply trying to correct you on.

Now, personally, I would go neither, if the purpose is for an autocross or road racing. Simply because in SCCA/NASA, suspension is MUCH more important than power by far, and that the use of the power and torqueband of the S2K is more than enough to compete, especially if you're an experienced driver. Many times I've seen people in these events, and its just too much power than needed. I can easily see if you were a 1.3litre Vitz (or Yaris) in which there is neither power nor torque, but with the S2K, there's more than enough displacement and torque to get the job done correctly, especially if you know how the powerband/torqueband work, you can even adjust your driving style to compensate for any lack in a certain area.

The S2K forum may be of some additional help to you than perhaps this forum. Though as a former S2K owner myself, many would agree that the supercharger would be more for any street use than autocross or road race, as the naturally-aspirated F20C/F22C platform has proved for over 10 years that it can work just as well in those situations without the need of boost.

 

Well let me make this choice easy for you.

There are no roots blower setups currently readily available for the S2000. You would have to do a fully custom setup.

Centrifugal systems are everywhere for this particular car, but you might as well as just go turbo if you do that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well let me make this choice easy for you.

There are no roots blower setups currently readily available for the S2000. You would have to do a fully custom setup.

Centrifugal systems are everywhere for this particular car, but you might as well as just go turbo if you do that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well let me make this choice easy for you.

There are no roots blower setups currently readily available for the S2000. You would have to do a fully custom setup.

Centrifugal systems are everywhere for this particular car, but you might as well as just go turbo if you do that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for that...did you actually read any of this thread or like just the last comment??? i've already said that i don't know of any of these kits out there for sale, all i was looking for was a little info as to whether anybody had tried this. i agree that imay as well go turbo over a centrifugal. And yes i know do realize that scca/nasa would be more practical with a NA setup. like i said a million times over though....i was jsut wondering if anybody had taken a shot at this or not. other than that i don't particularly care about your arguments over turbo vs. supercharger.