I've been doing some searching and reading up on alignment settings for AutoX. I'm new to the sport and will be doing my first event this saturday , but I'm beginning to look at how to set the car up for future events.

I've been seeing a set up like this mentioned most...
Front
Camber -2.5*
Total Toe 1/16-1/8 out
Caster Stock setting

Rear
Camber -1.8*
Total Toe 0*

Now my main question I have is will this be a good street/track set up or will street tire wear be an issue? I believe I would go through a set of tires too quick with those settings on the street, but how do you guys run your cars for street/track use?
Would a little more mild camber setting like FRT 1.5* REAR 0.5* be better for street use, yet still beneficial for the AutoX course?
Also will the toe out setting in front cause a big tire wear issue? or at just 1/16th" should I expect to not have any problems? How about at an 1/8th"?

Any input would be appreciated.

Oh and tire pressures I have seen a bit of mixed answers. I was told ramp up the rear to tire's specs and run the fronts 5 to 10 lbs. lower than the rears... I'm on slightly used 14" BFG R1 tires.

Again, thanks!


Modified by Ahknodd at 7:28 AM 4/25/2008

 

I might be kinda new to this too but I don't get the point of having it toe out in the front?

 

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on this, but I think you would want toe IN on the front, and toe OUT on the rear to help the car rotate. If this was a dedicated auto-x car, i think toe would help a lot, since it low speed and lots of cornering. However on the street it would eat tires. I would set the rear toe to 0 (rear toe out can cause instability under braking) and set the front toe to about the limit of the factory spec (the service manual should specify an acceptable range). Just my opinion though...

I'm not sure about camber. I was actually wondering the same thing myself. I have my car set to -1 degree right now, but I think it should be a little more...

 

the point of toe out in the front is to help the car in turn in situations. since the front inside tire is already a little turned in the direction the car is going to turn it helps get the car to turn under low speeds. In road racing toe in in the front is more beneficial for high speed stability. As far as toe out in the rear I don't think that is helpful anywhere, but toe in in the rear is helpful to help with rotation, but no always needed.

I'm looking for a street/track set up since my car is a daily driver (mostly) and a track car as well. So I'd like to see what others are running in there street/track cars. That's basically what i'm asking. Will the set up I explained in my previous post be ok for the street or should I tone it back a bit on camber and run 1/16th" or maybe even 0" total toe out in the front?

Sorry i didn't include my set up. It's a 91 Civic Hatch with Tein SS coilovers (for Integra DA), CRX Hf front sway bar, will soon have 91 Integ GS rear sway bar, it's lowered, but not slammed, and I will be running on BFG R1 tires on 14" steelies. Oh and the car weighs about 2250 with driver.

Thanks guys for the help

 

You know what, you're right, I had my thinking backwards. I was thinking the outer tire does most of the work, so with toe in int he front, that weighted outter tire would be quicker into the turn. sorry

 

if you're new to this, just run stock settings(tire wear, etc), and learn the car and go from there. People have different opinions/driving styles and you need to start learning what you really need to do to the car...IMO

Have fun!

 

Depending on where you go though (like Sears or Pep Boys) they will not set the toe to what you want (for fear of a law suit) they will only set it to stock specs. You might have to find a dedicated shop or someone that works on race cars.

I ran 1/8th toe out front and back on my 91 Civic Si but it wasn't my daily driver. I drove it to events and it wasn't bad but you had to keep both hands on the steering wheel or the road would pull the steering wheel out of your hands.

0 toe front and back is a good compromise. Since when driving the tires will toe out a little anyway from compliance through the suspension system.

I was able to run 40 autocrosses and about 5000 street miles on my Falken Azenis. From new til when I sold them they had 5-6mm start and 2-3mm when I sold them.

 

GREAT!
Thanks for all the replies and support. I am new to this sport, I've been drag racing for years, but today was my first taste of autocross!!
I had a great time. Tomorrow is the event, so hopefully I'll do okay. I'm hoping to just not come in last in my class.

I think I should probably just set the car to stock settings and get the thing to drive strait and then mess with my alignment myself. I am actually going to school for automotive technology here in Oregon, so I have access to an alignment rack an a Hunter machine, so I can set my settings to whatever I want! No fear of lawsuits here. I learned a long time ago to not take your race car to a shop like Sears or Les Schwab. They don't know $hit about racecars. I say just do it yourself. So that's why I'm going to school...
Again, thanks for the input and I'll keep those settings in mind, but I'll take this for now...<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you're new to this, just run stock settings(tire wear, etc), and learn the car and go from there. People have different opinions/driving styles and you need to start learning what you really need to do to the car...IMO

Have fun!</TD></TR></TABLE> I'll keep you guys posted on what I find to be my best settings. Maybe I'll get some pics or a video to share with you guys tomorrow.

 

altough proper allignment is a crucial part of a well balance race car whether it be autox, street, or road racing, but the most important upgrade you will ever make is going to be EXPERIENCE.

Go out there and have fun, meet some new people and try to learn as much as you can. Dont worry about how you place. just keep track of your times and try to figure out how you can better them each run. Riding along and letting experience drivers ride with you helps out alot.

Once you start becoming more comfortable out there and your lack of experience is no longer your limiting factor than you can start worrying about your vehicle set up.

i run 2.5* of camber front and rear with 0 toe front and rear.
this gives my car a pretty neautral and balance set up with my spring rates.

altough i no longer daily drive the car, when i was i saw no tire wear issues occuring. toe kills tires not camber.

moral of the story go out have fun and learn as much as you can.

 

Rear Camber is -1 degree from the factory, so I wouldnt go under that. I will be running -2.0 front and -1.5 rear as soon as I get my new adjusters in. I read somewhere that you want a little more camber in the front, most likely because of the rotation of the tire during turning. For toe, I'd say run 0.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thoma16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rear Camber is -1 degree from the factory, so I wouldnt go under that. I will be running -2.0 front and -1.5 rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry just confused me a bit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by climb_on &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">altough proper allignment is a crucial part of a well balance race car whether it be autox, street, or road racing, but the most important upgrade you will ever make is going to be EXPERIENCE.

Go out there and have fun, meet some new people and try to learn as much as you can. Dont worry about how you place. just keep track of your times and try to figure out how you can better them each run. Riding along and letting experience drivers ride with you helps out alot.

Once you start becoming more comfortable out there and your lack of experience is no longer your limiting factor than you can start worrying about your vehicle set up.

i run 2.5* of camber front and rear with 0 toe front and rear.
this gives my car a pretty neautral and balance set up with my spring rates.

altough i no longer daily drive the car, when i was i saw no tire wear issues occuring. toe kills tires not camber.

moral of the story go out have fun and learn as much as you can. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I totally agree man, that's all I'm trying to do right now. I did pretty well for my first event. I got second in my class, but I improved with every run, so that was my win for the day. I met a ton of people and got some lines on cheap parts!

Again, thanks to all you guys for the input. I'll post up what I end up running for the next event and how it helped me out.

 

Sorry that was kind of confusing, I meant I wouldnt go more positive than -1 degree seeing as thats what it comes set at from the factory.

 

This is a pretty good daily driver and autox/track compromise alignment I run on my Integra:
-1.8' camber front (not adjusted, just from lowering ~2")
-1.2' camber rear (washers under the UCA mounting point to negate some rear camber)
0' toe front and rear

I run STS tires on the street in the summer, so I do care about tire wear. It's not that bad as long as I rotate tires front to rear often, and flip them inside out eventually to even out the front camber wear.

 

There is definitely a trade-off in alignment settings between being fast and tire wear. Good news is that you can do it so it's not as bad without giving up too much tire wear. Alignment also depends on the tires and your driving style.

I always steer people to a layout of what I've done in STS because there is tons of info there, and it's been updated relatively recently. http://www.redshiftmotorsports...e.htm

The bottom line is that you'll give up only a few tenths by running a street friendly alignment. The trailered race car setup is extreme for helping to control the car when you are trying to run as fast as you need to finish up front at Nationals. But it won't necessarily make you faster as a novice.

Chris Shenefield

 

Just read thru that link you posted. You have some very good info in there!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just read thru that link you posted. You have some very good info in there!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2! Awesome info on that site.

I cant wait to apply those setting's to the gs-r at this weekends first of the season autox test and tune meet in Albany.

 

chris knows his stuff
(the *** kissing has nothing to do with me wanting a new exhaust)

but serriously not running less than -1* camber in the rear because thats factory is bogus.

the factory allingment specs is what honda found to be the safest while promoting longevety to the cars components.

but like chirs says it will all depend on your tire choice and driving style.

I for example run azenis a tire thats know to overheat easily especially at the shoulders. therefore i run plenty of camber as i stated above. i also like a progresseive loss of rear traction to promote oversteer therefore i run lower pressures in the rear, like chirs talks about in his article. because of this my tires roll over easily and with 0* or -1* in the rear my tires would heat up real fast and become greasy, cones dont like that very much.

moral of the story.
you'll probably have to try out different things before you find what you like, having a lifetime balances or year of balnaces comes in handy when i was there at least once a week after i got new suspension. but now it feels pretty good!