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[Modified by Bryant, 10:03 PM 2/14/2003]

 

B16A heads need the ITR/CTR lost motion assemblies man,
people dont tell you that. My boy Chris has a SiR2 and they
are loud as crap on stock cams. He bought a ragged engine,
balanced it and white gloved the damn thing and didnt change
the LM Assys... hehe he regrets it. They run $250 a set x 8 IN and EX
and you have to remove the cams and rocker assemblies completely
to take them out. Its easiest when the head is off the car...
but entirely possible when you jack the motor up about 4 inches.

If this isnt the culprit, then I would revisit the lashes if you have been
driving the car hard. If they were adjusted incorrectly this can make the
noise, you may have one or two of your lashes open up on you or get
too tight that will also make a noise.

be sure your cam bearing caps were installed correctly and that the 12mms
were torqued to 19-20ft/lbs and the 10mms to 8ft/lbs

if the timing belt tension is whacked... it will also run loud and clacky mainly
when its cold before the engine expands and stretches the belt.

my first guess is that your LM assys are shot on the intake side. If this is the
case, they can bind under VTEC operation and destroy something but thats
mainly at insane revs over 9K in drag motors or so I have been told.

have a real technician diagnose the car, preferably one that understands specs
and modified hondas and not justa wrench turner.

 

very informative

im the friend he was cruisin with and we were both stumpted at what was going on.

i thought, since he did a valve adjustment that his valves were tickin on his pistons just barely, but after running it a little and going to work, it quiets down which is very wierd.

that definantly sounds like it's the prob. Total fix will be about $130, and we'll have to do it soon. Thanks alot man

 

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[Modified by Bryant, 10:04 PM 2/14/2003]

 

first off, what did your friend adjust the valves to?
it's supose to be:
.006 intake
.008 exhaust
( just for reference)

Perhaps, one of the 10mm valve adjuster nuts came loose, which then loosened up the valve adjustment setting on whichever rocker arm, and it's just spankin away, which is what you hear. You might wanna take your car back to the dude who installed the cam and see what he can do.

Changing the LMA's to type-R spec isn't necessary. A ton of people stick with whatever their LMA's are on their respective engines, and just upgrade to 'R' valvesprings at least. I have a couple friends who've i've installed 'R' cams on (both of non type-R LMA's), and they're cars run fine with no ticking sounds from the valvetrain at all.

 

I doubt it's the LMAs.....I mean I'm running Toda As on a stock PR3 Head (other than ITR valve springs) and it's quiet as can be. Most likely the valves are not adjusted properly.

 

how long have you been running the toda A's?

the ticking on CR-X's car is mad loud when he first turns it on. we both thought there was tapping on the piston (which is where i was tryin to find the clearance) and find out exactly how much it was adjusted where he got it adjusted from...

but it sounds like it's the LMA's, because why would it be loud when he first starts it up, and quiet down after it's fully warmed up and been driven around a little?

i would think it makes the same ticking noise if it were the valves slapping the piston, but the LMA's makin sense.

It's at stock Timing (at least that's the way he set it when it was installed), and we were also thinking it might have jumped some degrees, it's doubtful, though.

But being CTR intake cam is 18° BTDC, and stock is 10° i believe, with a valve adjustment and stock valve train, there MIGHT be clicking,.

and with stock piston-valve clearance on the INT being .006 to .007 on both 1st gen B16A and USDM B16A2, then with the valve adjustment, and something gone bad, there is possible valve ticking,

definantly sounds like the LMA's though.


[Modified by poison, 12:26 PM 7/12/2002]

 

I've been running the Toda As for a good six months. I'm not sure how much work you guys do on cars, but I met someone that thought that they had adjusted their valves right and they did get the clearances right, but had the firing order wrong. Adjusted the cylinders 1, 2, 3, 4 instead of 1, 3, 4, 2. Not that you did this and I'm not questioning your abilities, just making sure all is good. Before you start replacing the LMAs, I would verify that the valves clearances are still in check. Best of luck.




[Modified by dplatt, 1:04 PM 7/12/2002]

 

yea it sounds like you need to revisit the lashes bone cold
factor spec is

.007"
.008" exhaust

all stock B series DOHC/VTEC cams...

.006" is too tight in my motor I have already tried it.
I have also found that I get more lift at .0065"... but thats nil at best
.007/.008 makes the best power when adjusted bone cold
as in wait all night after you shut her down and adjust them 8 hours
or more later...

TDC 1, adjust, TDC 3, adjust, TDC 4, adjust, TDC 2, adjust

REMEMBER... if you have moved the LCAs on the cams NOTE:

if you are running adjustable cam gears you need to put the cams
back to 0,0 to adjust the valves properly...

something I learned by trial and error...

The LM Assy thing happens in some motors. It happened to my friends'
but its not as loud as you guys are describing...


[Modified by MikeSarr_GSR, 10:43 PM 7/12/2002]

 

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[Modified by Bryant, 10:04 PM 2/14/2003]

 

did you torque down the nut to the correct torque values?

 

yea what he says... be sure the cam bearing caps are:
19-20lb/ft on the 12mms
8lb/ft on the 10mms

and the timing belt tensioner is 40lb/ft... you can get away with more
on that one.

if you are getting it when cold and then it goes away when it warms
up... keep in mind your engine is "bigger" when it gets hot and the
T-belt gets tighter. Perhaps you have a loose belt making a flapping
sound or... quite possibly that sound is from a belt that is too tight
causing the cam to "dig" into the head. This condition would only
come in the event that the cam bearing caps are too tight... been
there done that....

good luck and dont push the car until you know the real skinny

to properly tension the T-belt do this:

remove the valve cover
remove the spark plugs for ease of job
set to tdc on #1
remove the left upper engine mount
locate the tensioner bolt grommet, remove it is a 14mm
loosen the bolt 180 degrees
crank the engine by hand 3 teeth on the exhaust cam
tighten the tensioner bolt snug, not all the way
deflect the belt area between the cogs 1cm with your thumb
tighten the 14mm bolt ALL THE WAY (BE MINDFUL TO BE COMPLETELY
SQUARE ON THE BOLT HEAD AS IT IS EASY TO ROUND OUT THE HEAD
OF THIS BOLT RENDERING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE OR REPLACE)
rotate the crank every 90 degrees, checking the index marks
and TDC markings
rotate the engine by hand a few times, check the tension on
the belt at TDC on 1 and 4 making sure the tension on the
exhaust cam side and the intake cam side are similar
if this is the case, reinstall the spark plugs and head cover.
put the mount back and look over your work.

start the motor listen for any un-natural sounds.
if not, test drive and do what you will to the motor...





[Modified by MikeSarr_GSR, 1:37 AM 7/14/2002]

 

quote:

Perhaps, one of the 10mm valve adjuster nuts came loose, which then loosened up the valve adjustment setting on whichever rocker arm, and it's just spankin away, which is what you hear.

This happened to me before, on a B16 stroker (1.9) using ITR cams. The nut on the valve adjuster loosened up a little, and it was clicking like crazy. I just started over, redid the valve adjustment, and torqued everything down to spec, no more problems.

 

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[Modified by Bryant, 10:04 PM 2/14/2003]

 

I ran CTR cams for almost 2 years/80,000 miles and not once I had a loud valve-train. I never change my LMA's.

Hell, the motor I had was really beat-up but yet maintence. Valve adjustment was done at every 15,000 miles or so. Used 5w-30 Valvoline Syntec and not once had a problem.

 

its awesome that you have had good luck with your motor man

kudos

 

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[Modified by Bryant, 10:04 PM 2/14/2003]

 

Why would you say .006 is too tight ? Wasn't it running right with .006 ?
What diff did you find @ .006 and .007/.008 power wise ?

 

do it and see for yourself. you will have more low end power but you
will not pull as hard up top

 

I'll believe you(everyone says that too), but that seems backward to me. Figured that if I had a smaller clearance, I'd get slightly more duration.

 

ok, i just want to clear this up. is the .006 int and .007 exh how much the valve opens from the head?? or is it the piston-to-valve clearance??
ugh confused

 

No, its the clearance between the cam lobe and rocker. .006 is like paper thin

 

ahh, gotcha, thanks

 

if you look in your helms manual or on the VECI label on your hood,
the spec is .007 intake, .008 exhaust if you are in inches.

.17-.19/.20-22mm is what I think the range of spec is in mm you can look it up
in the helms. .006 is .165mm which is too tight!

if you convert to mm, it is .179mm/.22, which is the middle of the
accpeted range. hanging on the edge of spec on the tight side
or the loose side is asking for trouble. .007"/.008" is this area
and where the acura techs I know set up B series VTEC cams.

if you really wanted to be technical...

.0065 and .00775 would be most excellent

.17875mm/.213125mm