Cali State Ref need help
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From: Central, Cali, US
Cali State Ref need help
I took my car to the state ref to try and BAR my 97 civic hatch with a JDM B16 and it fail the emissions part of the test. The motor is completely stock except for a 12lbs flywheel. i was wondering how i can get it to pass the emissions part i was thinking maybe my cat is going out but i dunno.
Here are the readings
timing set to 15 BTC
15mph
RPM 2177
CO2 14.2
HC (ppm) Max 66-meas 223
Co Max .57 meas .60
NOx Max 487 meas 2160 (Gross polluter)
25mph
RPM 2479
CO2 14.9
HC (ppm) Max 49 meas 79
CO Max .55 meas .16
NOx Max 774 meas 215
the 15mph part i failed everything but at the 25mph part i only failed the HC. I used that gurenteed to pass. There are a few things i think might help, i will change the fuel filter again, new cap and rotor, wires, try a new PVC, i was thinking about seafoaming my gas tank. i think the cat might be going out but i dunno. it has roughly 70K miles on it and its from a 01 integra LS. I also put a brand new O2 sensor from honda on, any other suggestion are always welcomed.
Here are the readings
timing set to 15 BTC
15mph
RPM 2177
CO2 14.2
HC (ppm) Max 66-meas 223
Co Max .57 meas .60
NOx Max 487 meas 2160 (Gross polluter)
25mph
RPM 2479
CO2 14.9
HC (ppm) Max 49 meas 79
CO Max .55 meas .16
NOx Max 774 meas 215
the 15mph part i failed everything but at the 25mph part i only failed the HC. I used that gurenteed to pass. There are a few things i think might help, i will change the fuel filter again, new cap and rotor, wires, try a new PVC, i was thinking about seafoaming my gas tank. i think the cat might be going out but i dunno. it has roughly 70K miles on it and its from a 01 integra LS. I also put a brand new O2 sensor from honda on, any other suggestion are always welcomed.
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
How long was your car sitting before they put your car on the dyno? It looks like once your car warmed up at faster speeds emissions went down a lot. Making sure your car and cat is warmed up will help
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From: socal
best thing to do next time if u didn't warm ur cap up good enough, before u go ref'd, drive ur car for about 20 minutes. or if u want it to warm up faster, drive at like 4500k rpms and just cruize around. then when the time comes, go ref'd it. u should be good. it seems like ur car's not warm enough that's it. u gotta warm up that cat.
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From: San Ramon/Pleasanton, CA, USA
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
What where the O2 readings?
If they are low like 0.4 at the 15mph and 0.2 at 25 then the cat is going.
If the readings are 0.1 at 15 and 0.0 the cat might not be the problem.
Did you run the GTP thru the tank or did you test with it in the tank?
How long has the cat been run on the car before the test? Have you had it on the car for 70K or did it come off a car at 70K and you just installed it on yours?
If they are low like 0.4 at the 15mph and 0.2 at 25 then the cat is going.
If the readings are 0.1 at 15 and 0.0 the cat might not be the problem.
Did you run the GTP thru the tank or did you test with it in the tank?
How long has the cat been run on the car before the test? Have you had it on the car for 70K or did it come off a car at 70K and you just installed it on yours?
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From: Central, Cali, US
Re: Cali State Ref need help (thesmogman)
The car was warmed up, the drive was a good 30 minutes at 4K RPM. But ref shut the car down and it sat for about 10-15 for the visual and then they started it back up and it idle for 20minutes before they put it on the dyno. The O2 reading was 0.4 at 15mph and 0.0 At 25mph
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
HCs are high which means you're not burning all the fuel. Could mean you're running rich (we need to see your other readings to know) or that your ignition is too weak. Could be caused by that fuel additive.
High NOx means that the combustion chamber is too hot. That usually points to too much ignition timing advance, but in your case you said you're at 15. Which spark plugs are in there and did you gap them? Try running 91 Octane. JDM motors seem to require it. Also, use the Seafoam product.
That "guaranteed to pass" stuff probably just hurt you. It doesn't solve your problem and it's only meant to address a specific emissions problem. But you never use that on a fuel injected car, especially a Honda which will pass unless you've neglected it or your piston rings are shot.
Smog shops are required to warm the car up before the test. It's built into the computer to run the car on the dyno for a period of time.
High NOx means that the combustion chamber is too hot. That usually points to too much ignition timing advance, but in your case you said you're at 15. Which spark plugs are in there and did you gap them? Try running 91 Octane. JDM motors seem to require it. Also, use the Seafoam product.
That "guaranteed to pass" stuff probably just hurt you. It doesn't solve your problem and it's only meant to address a specific emissions problem. But you never use that on a fuel injected car, especially a Honda which will pass unless you've neglected it or your piston rings are shot.
Smog shops are required to warm the car up before the test. It's built into the computer to run the car on the dyno for a period of time.
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From: Behind The Orange Curtain, Ca
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
I'd find someone with a cat you could borrow. Swap it on and test it again. I failed my first time, swapped the cat and passed with flying colors. I replaced the same stuff new as you did, new plugs, new O2, new wires etc.
Good luck
Good luck
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From: Central, Cali, US
bump any more advice? the O2 Reading was at 0.4 at 15mph and 0.0 at 25mph what do you think thesmogman? i have been trying to burn that GTP out of my tank, I will be going to honda tomarrow to order a new fuel filter, distributor cap and rotor, and a PVC valve. is there anything else that I should get while i am there? heres a stupid question how do i post the copy of the paper that i got that from the ref that might help everyone out to come up with a solution.
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From: Socal
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speed_1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the spark plugs that are in there are NGK iridiums.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Take that garbage out right now and get plain jane NGK coppers.
The stock honda ignition is way too weak to fire iridiums properly.
Also, how old is the cat and O2 sensor?
Take that garbage out right now and get plain jane NGK coppers.
The stock honda ignition is way too weak to fire iridiums properly.
Also, how old is the cat and O2 sensor?
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From: USA
Re: Cali State Ref need help (MADMAX_zero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Take that garbage out right now and get plain jane NGK coppers.
The stock honda ignition is way too weak to fire iridiums properly.
Also, how old is the cat and O2 sensor?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
iridiums take less energy to fire and the OEM ignition is plenty healthy!
Take that garbage out right now and get plain jane NGK coppers.
The stock honda ignition is way too weak to fire iridiums properly.
Also, how old is the cat and O2 sensor?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
iridiums take less energy to fire and the OEM ignition is plenty healthy!
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From: CA, USA
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
best be safe and spend an extra few hundred dollars. Buy everything required new (spark plugs 'n wires, cap 'n rotor, air filter 'n fuel filter, BOTH O2 sensors and CAT), bolt'em on the day before, use a higher octane gas and "poof" u just passed ur JDM motor. and since ur running OBD-II, reset the ecu and drive it around for about 40-50 miles, so that if u do test it, it wont fail just for the ecu reset.
dont bother warming up the car, that "trick" only works when u have aftermarket headers, the stock headers should be fine and since u dont live next door to a state ref (assumingly) u have to drive there anyway. And u "should" be using the USDM ecu (although the JDM ecu can pass ur just not suppose to, but shhh!).
dont bother warming up the car, that "trick" only works when u have aftermarket headers, the stock headers should be fine and since u dont live next door to a state ref (assumingly) u have to drive there anyway. And u "should" be using the USDM ecu (although the JDM ecu can pass ur just not suppose to, but shhh!).
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From: Socal
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Richard...)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Richard... »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
iridiums take less energy to fire and the OEM ignition is plenty healthy! </TD></TR></TABLE>
No, iridium takes about 3 times the energy to fire than copper. Platinum takes more than 6 times.
The stock honda ignition is weak. If you have to gap down the plugs significantly, the ignition is weak.
An MSD6 and coil shows the difference.
iridiums take less energy to fire and the OEM ignition is plenty healthy! </TD></TR></TABLE>
No, iridium takes about 3 times the energy to fire than copper. Platinum takes more than 6 times.
The stock honda ignition is weak. If you have to gap down the plugs significantly, the ignition is weak.
An MSD6 and coil shows the difference.
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (MADMAX_zero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, iridium takes about 3 times the energy to fire than copper. Platinum takes more than 6 times.
The stock honda ignition is weak. If you have to gap down the plugs significantly, the ignition is weak.
An MSD6 and coil shows the difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OMG put your tools down and go learn something please!
it is well documented...!
Advantages of Iridium spark plug types
Due to the properties of Iridium, the spark plugs center electrode can be made with a much smaller diameter than with platinum, Gold or gold palladium and copper/nickel types without sacrificing service life. The spark plugs potential difference is more concentrated at the tiny Iridium tip and hence less 'spark jump' voltage is required - this can be as much as 5,000 volts less than with standard plug types. Ignition is improved and less strain is placed on the ignition system. Benefits of improved ignition/combustion include better fuel economy, increased power/acceleration and especially better throttle response
FURTHER MORE!
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/p...o.asp
&&&&&&&&
when your done reading all of that sir!
Indexing spark plugs
The "indexing" of plugs upon installation this involves installing them so that the open area of the spark gap, not shrouded by the ground electrode, faces the center of the combustion chamber, towards the intake valve, rather than the wall. Many experts believe that this will maximize the exposure of the fuel-air mixture to the spark, and therefore result in better ignition; others, however, believe that this is useful only to keep the ground electrode out of the way of the piston in ultra-high-compression engines if clearance is insufficient. In any event, this is accomplished by marking the location of the gap on the outside of the plug, installing it, and noting the direction in which the mark faces; then the plug is removed and additional washers are added so as to change the orientation of the tightened plug. This must be done individually for each plug, as the orientation of the gap with respect to the threads of the shell is random.
No, iridium takes about 3 times the energy to fire than copper. Platinum takes more than 6 times.
The stock honda ignition is weak. If you have to gap down the plugs significantly, the ignition is weak.
An MSD6 and coil shows the difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OMG put your tools down and go learn something please!
it is well documented...!
Advantages of Iridium spark plug types
Due to the properties of Iridium, the spark plugs center electrode can be made with a much smaller diameter than with platinum, Gold or gold palladium and copper/nickel types without sacrificing service life. The spark plugs potential difference is more concentrated at the tiny Iridium tip and hence less 'spark jump' voltage is required - this can be as much as 5,000 volts less than with standard plug types. Ignition is improved and less strain is placed on the ignition system. Benefits of improved ignition/combustion include better fuel economy, increased power/acceleration and especially better throttle response
FURTHER MORE!
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/p...o.asp
&&&&&&&&
when your done reading all of that sir!
Indexing spark plugs
The "indexing" of plugs upon installation this involves installing them so that the open area of the spark gap, not shrouded by the ground electrode, faces the center of the combustion chamber, towards the intake valve, rather than the wall. Many experts believe that this will maximize the exposure of the fuel-air mixture to the spark, and therefore result in better ignition; others, however, believe that this is useful only to keep the ground electrode out of the way of the piston in ultra-high-compression engines if clearance is insufficient. In any event, this is accomplished by marking the location of the gap on the outside of the plug, installing it, and noting the direction in which the mark faces; then the plug is removed and additional washers are added so as to change the orientation of the tightened plug. This must be done individually for each plug, as the orientation of the gap with respect to the threads of the shell is random.
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From: Moreno Valley, Ca, America
Re: Cali State Ref need help (1jdmek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r0guish »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(although the JDM ecu can pass ur just not suppose to, but shhh!).</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Id thought you would fail regardless due to the not having the USDM # after the the letter stamped on your engine? PLZ some correct me if Im wrong
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Id thought you would fail regardless due to the not having the USDM # after the the letter stamped on your engine? PLZ some correct me if Im wrong
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (UnforgivingEK9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UnforgivingEK9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Id thought you would fail regardless due to the not having the USDM # after the the letter stamped on your engine? PLZ some correct me if Im wrong </TD></TR></TABLE>
Who ever said that you can not pass a JDM motor through the Ref needs to be shot for starting such a stupid rumor. sorry but thats all it is, pass a JDM motor through the ref is simple , just make it equavilant to its USDM counterpart. the P30 pistons that you get with most JDM motors now days are .2 higher compression but there are numerous people that have BAR certified JDM motors.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Id thought you would fail regardless due to the not having the USDM # after the the letter stamped on your engine? PLZ some correct me if Im wrong </TD></TR></TABLE>
Who ever said that you can not pass a JDM motor through the Ref needs to be shot for starting such a stupid rumor. sorry but thats all it is, pass a JDM motor through the ref is simple , just make it equavilant to its USDM counterpart. the P30 pistons that you get with most JDM motors now days are .2 higher compression but there are numerous people that have BAR certified JDM motors.
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speed_1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Who ever said that you can not pass a JDM motor through the Ref needs to be shot for starting such a stupid rumor. sorry but thats all it is, pass a JDM motor through the ref is simple , just make it equavilant to its USDM counterpart. the P30 pistons that you get with most JDM motors now days are .2 higher compression but there are numerous people that have BAR certified JDM motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
actually they talk about passing them on the DMV smog section of the website
Who ever said that you can not pass a JDM motor through the Ref needs to be shot for starting such a stupid rumor. sorry but thats all it is, pass a JDM motor through the ref is simple , just make it equavilant to its USDM counterpart. the P30 pistons that you get with most JDM motors now days are .2 higher compression but there are numerous people that have BAR certified JDM motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
actually they talk about passing them on the DMV smog section of the website
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From: Moreno Valley, Ca, America
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Speed_1)
Thanks for the info its just I heard from a friend that heard from a friends moms dads sisters cousin who doesnt speak English that you cant pass 
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (UnforgivingEK9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UnforgivingEK9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the info its just I heard from a friend that heard from a friends moms dads sisters cousin who doesnt speak English that you cant pass </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly. Then you came on Honda Tech to not only repeat it, but insist upon it. That's the problem with HT today.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Exactly. Then you came on Honda Tech to not only repeat it, but insist upon it. That's the problem with HT today.
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From: Central, Cali, US
Re: Cali State Ref need help (baller status)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by baller status »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Exactly. Then you came on Honda Tech to not only repeat it, but insist upon it. That's the problem with HT today.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats very true. 90% opinion/ BS, 10% really help facts.
Exactly. Then you came on Honda Tech to not only repeat it, but insist upon it. That's the problem with HT today.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats very true. 90% opinion/ BS, 10% really help facts.
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From: Socal
Re: Cali State Ref need help (Richard...)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Richard... »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it is well documented...!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, cause NGK said so. That son, is not what is called, "well documented". They are simply selling a product. With that, comes major bias and loads of selling points that may not even be true or even tested.
Oh snap, you seem to be a distributor of NGK yourself, thus bias. Hrmmm, bias is a greedy dung eating monkey trying to make a profit of off plugs that cost 5x more, but at the expense of actual proven data, well come on. That's a no brainer.
Plug indexing is nothing new. Tell NGK to give you better color selling point brochures next time.
it is well documented...!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, cause NGK said so. That son, is not what is called, "well documented". They are simply selling a product. With that, comes major bias and loads of selling points that may not even be true or even tested.
Oh snap, you seem to be a distributor of NGK yourself, thus bias. Hrmmm, bias is a greedy dung eating monkey trying to make a profit of off plugs that cost 5x more, but at the expense of actual proven data, well come on. That's a no brainer.
Plug indexing is nothing new. Tell NGK to give you better color selling point brochures next time.
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From: Frisko, CA, USA
can i pass ref w/ a 97 del sol b16a4 from canada on my 99 civic ex... im running stock harness w/ a jumper to a jdm 97 sir ecu...
currently the car doesnt have any CEL, no major mods that cant be replace back to stock... i have a SRI, aftermarket headers, test pipe and catback.. i can replace most of those back to stock except for the catback..
currently the car doesnt have any CEL, no major mods that cant be replace back to stock... i have a SRI, aftermarket headers, test pipe and catback.. i can replace most of those back to stock except for the catback..
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Re: Cali State Ref need help (MADMAX_zero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MADMAX_zero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Right, cause NGK said so. That son, is not what is called, "well documented". They are simply selling a product. With that, comes major bias and loads of selling points that may not even be true or even tested.
Oh snap, you seem to be a distributor of NGK yourself, thus bias. Hrmmm, bias is a greedy dung eating monkey trying to make a profit of off plugs that cost 5x more, but at the expense of actual proven data, well come on. That's a no brainer.
Plug indexing is nothing new. Tell NGK to give you better color selling point brochures next time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol
it was the easiest place to show documentation if you think im wrong or NGK sue them prove the false advertising then DO IT!
Right, cause NGK said so. That son, is not what is called, "well documented". They are simply selling a product. With that, comes major bias and loads of selling points that may not even be true or even tested.
Oh snap, you seem to be a distributor of NGK yourself, thus bias. Hrmmm, bias is a greedy dung eating monkey trying to make a profit of off plugs that cost 5x more, but at the expense of actual proven data, well come on. That's a no brainer.
Plug indexing is nothing new. Tell NGK to give you better color selling point brochures next time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol
it was the easiest place to show documentation if you think im wrong or NGK sue them prove the false advertising then DO IT!