my first ever honda track day is SUnday.

My EG hatch weighs 2475 lbs (with me and gas), is cornerweighted, has 500f and 600r springs, tons of power, ITR LSD, and has the following alignment specs:

Front: -2 camber 1/16 toes out
rear: -0.8 camber and 0 toe

is that enough rear camber? Will the car be too loose for a first timer? does it need more?

I have track experience, just never in a built hatch. (always in AWD cars)

(PS, i am posting as L8APX here too, but I can olny post 5 items per day under that screenname, weird)

 

what tire and what rear bar?

 

I don't think that is enough for any tire or rear sway combo on FWD.. . the force exherted on that one rear tire isn't as substantial as the front but is still going to roll over some.

street tires = -1.5 to -2 rear.. . maybe more if you have soft sidewall tires.

ra1s I'd put at at least -2.5. yep, higher for R comps it'll get heat in the rears so that they'll grip and R comps just plain like more camber than street tires.

If you are rollin the edge over too much, you day will go slow and twitchy

-2.5 on 225/45/15 RA1s. I had success running -2.5 all the way around. Fronts showed good wear for me and so did rears. I got a bit more inside tire wear b/c of my NO LSD wearin 210whp K20 setup

 

here's the swaybars, sorry.

Comptech adjustable 21mm rear swaybar-tiebar combo (not sure what it's set to).
Stock 21mm front sway bar

tires are 205 50 victoracers

Thanks so much for the help. will be at the alignment shop tomorrow.

 

im at -3* in the rear. a littl emore in the front on 225 ra-1s all the way around

 

kevin?

if so when did you get a eg hatch?

 

No, I'm not Kevin. My name's Tim

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NO LSD wearin 210whp K20 setup
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hey was that car up dor sale recently?

I was considering either it or one just like it, but the no LSD killed it for me. Going from AWD to 2WD is bad enough, just couldn't do 1WD. everything else the car had looked really appealing.

I'm gonna wish I had your motor. I did my first "real" testdrive last night (finally developed the guts to test the VTEC), and while the power is really quite impressive, I have to spend all kinds of time north of 6k rpm (not that that's all bad, but I figure it must lead to early failure to spend so much time at HIGH rpms).

 

yes, my car is still for sale... $8500 OBO with my 16" desmonds

The no LSD thing doesn't effect you as much as you might think unless you are used to driving a LSD FWD car around the track.. . It's all about throttle control and I've been told that it's probably better to learn without an LSD. Might make you a more smooth driver once you get one.

I can Lap Mid America Motorplex at 1:46:50 which is pretty darn Fast for a civic. I definetely think with a LSD and stiffer spring rates I could dip down to 1:44s though.

Since I have K-Pro, my Vtec kicks in at 4,600 I think. But I try to never get down that low in the revs. 5500-8000 is where this car likes to be. OEM Type S cams

 

That is going to need a lot more camber.

I run -3.0/-2.4 on my EG with less weight and stiffer springs, but with 205 RA1's.

 

i run 2.8 front and 1.8 rear 380 front springs and 430 rears. 22mmfront and 23m rear sway bars.

i need to get stiffer front springs.
i had 1.2 in the back before and it didnt feel as nice.
even with 1.8 in the rear from the looks of the scrubbing on the tires it appears i need to run some more.

i have a set of rs2 for tires. the car felt more planted with the azenis. i guess because of the stiffer sidewalls.

 

Yup, I'm running at least -3 or more on my rear, and it feels just about right. I'm running the same spring rate front/rear, so I would definitely recommend you increase your rear camber to the maximum that you can.

 

A little input from my track weekend

550f/450r setup, stock civic EX 22mm front sway, 22mm rear sway and ASR subframe support. All new bushings throughout with spherical bearings in front holding camber in rear for toe and camber kit.

Front = -2.4 camber -1/16 toe out (I asked for more from shop but they wouldn't spend more time on it)
rear = -2.5 camber and 0 toe
225/45/15 Toyo RA1 at 3/32s

car felt very neutral at 4 out of 12 clicks front and 11 rear on Skunk 2 Pro C's. Pretty safe and descently fast setup for HPDE. I really needed a LSD though.

Rear roll over at 38psi hot looked great. Didn't change tire pressures all day but track was kind of cold. Rears probably didn't get up to temp but they did however get hot enough to pick up rubber.. . wear was very minimal even after 7qty 15-25 minute runs. My morning lap times were 2 seconds slower than average on a warm day and afternoon was 1 second off. Car did feel unballanced which a corner weight session would probably have solved.. .

Front needed more camber but I didn't want to go -3 for a car I drive to the track and around town on once in a while. Front PSI 39-40 hot. 42 wasn't enough to keep the front left from rolling over too much so that validated needing more camber for the roll bar setup and spring rates I am running.

http://photos.fotogp.net/p9385...30343
http://photos.fotogp.net/p9385...64173

oh and the GT3 cup car was 12 seconds faster than me so he wasn't back there long but great pic non the less

On my next setup I think I'm gonna go 650 front and 550 rear with a 24mm adjustable rear sway from ASR. Same shocks and spherical bearings. -2.7 front and -2.5 rear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Front needed more camber but I didn't want to go -3 for a car I drive to the track and around town on once in a while.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I daily drive my DC2 with -4.0* of front camber, without issue. The tires are only used for street driving as well, I swap them when I get to the track for auto-x and HPDE. I have no signs of abnormal tire wear, and am left with 4/32" of tread across the entire surface with 2 years and 20k miles on these tires. I wouldn't worry about street driving -3* of camber, if I were you.

 

what toe settings are you running. I'm getting some inside wall wear at just -2 deg, but I'm running 1/8 toe out and from what I can see texrex2002 is running 1/16 and at -4 camber that would certainly eat up the inside.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1net &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what toe settings are you running. I'm getting some inside wall wear at just -2 deg, but I'm running 1/8 toe out and from what I can see texrex2002 is running 1/16 and at -4 camber that would certainly eat up the inside.</TD></TR></TABLE>

0 front toe
factory spec for rear toe (slight toe in, forget exact value)

1/8 toe out would eat tires. Thats a lot of tire scrub.

If you need the car for both street and track, either race on street toe settings, buy some toe plates and adjust toe at the track, or accept the extra tire wear on the street tires. I chose the first option and its been working for me, but you can't really have it all in a single car without some compromises.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I daily drive my DC2 with -4.0* of front camber, without issue. The tires are only used for street driving as well, I swap them when I get to the track for auto-x and HPDE. I have no signs of abnormal tire wear, and am left with 4/32" of tread across the entire surface with 2 years and 20k miles on these tires. I wouldn't worry about street driving -3* of camber, if I were you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I drive 300 to 400 miles to the track one way. do you??

-4 doesn't put the power down for having fun around town either.. . my 210whp shreds my front tires at the top of 2nd gear and I don't think the Hankook RS2s like 3rd gear in the cold either. No wheel hop at all either.. .

My -2.5 is a comprimise and I'm relying on my expensive bushings to not give away camber when I'm on the track but rescent tracking tells me I'm going to have to sacrifice more street grip for race grip around corners.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1net &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what toe settings are you running. I'm getting some inside wall wear at just -2 deg, but I'm running 1/8 toe out and from what I can see texrex2002 is running 1/16 and at -4 camber that would certainly eat up the inside.</TD></TR></TABLE>

according to my alignment sheet I'm running 0 rear which is negative(out) relative to stock. Pictoral of wheels on sheet show tow out exagerated.

Front says +0.12 POS compared to stock. I bitched about this and the alignment dude told me this is actually toe out compared to stock which I think might be complete bullshit and he gave me each wheel toed in at 0.06. The pictoral of the wheels looks exactly straight on for the front. The range picture I have on the sheet says I'm right dead smack in the middle of the OEM range but is still considered +0.12 ??

What is stock OEM toe for the front? IN by 0. _ _ _ ??
I'm at work so I don't have a manual to look at.. .

 

TunerN00b, I just complained about you saying that -4 doesn't give you tyre wear without ever mentioning toe. Toe eats much more tyre than camber. I do respect your opinion and i totally agree. I just chose the other option for the front I just love the turn-in. Soon though I'll probably be going 1/16 or even 1/32 tow out front, simply because under hard braking it seems my car gets even more toe out and seems to be getting too much of it. Plus, I have a strange feeling that this toe out helps turn-in oversteer more than I'd like it to. Rear is zero or just a slight toe in. I LOVED rear toe out, but a highway accident tought me I should pay more attention to grip and not drift But damn, did i love that rear toe out :-D

6spdKEG, hahahha I like the "alignment dude's look" when i tell them what i want. Well, they are used to middle aged station wagon drivers, so just find a guy that listens to you blindly or a racing enthusiast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1net &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TunerN00b, I just complained about you saying that -4 doesn't give you tyre wear without ever mentioning toe. Toe eats much more tyre than camber. I do respect your opinion and i totally agree. I just chose the other option for the front I just love the turn-in. Soon though I'll probably be going 1/16 or even 1/32 tow out front, simply because under hard braking it seems my car gets even more toe out and seems to be getting too much of it. Plus, I have a strange feeling that this toe out helps turn-in oversteer more than I'd like it to. Rear is zero or just a slight toe in. I LOVED rear toe out, but a highway accident tought me I should pay more attention to grip and not drift But damn, did i love that rear toe out :-D

6spdKEG, hahahha I like the "alignment dude's look" when i tell them what i want. Well, they are used to middle aged station wagon drivers, so just find a guy that listens to you blindly or a racing enthusiast.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Time for some toe plates then? Too bad you can't really adjust rear toe with them, since you can't measure compared to the chassis, just the opposite tire.

I too, would love some toe out up front. I'm just too lazy to buy toe plates and adjust them on site (especially since auto-x events begin way too early in the morning). I've certainly seen others drive in, swap tires, then realign the front with plates though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Front says +0.12 POS compared to stock. I bitched about this and the alignment dude told me this is actually toe out compared to stock which I think might be complete bullshit and he gave me each wheel toed in at 0.06. The pictoral of the wheels looks exactly straight on for the front. The range picture I have on the sheet says I'm right dead smack in the middle of the OEM range but is still considered +0.12 ??

What is stock OEM toe for the front? IN by 0. _ _ _ ??
I'm at work so I don't have a manual to look at.. . </TD></TR></TABLE>

Positive toe is toe IN. You want toe OUT.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Positive toe is toe IN. You want toe OUT.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you read what I said wrong.. . I'm not exactly sure why you think I don't know what Toe in means.. .

I was only talking about what the stupid alignment guy set me up with which I think is wrong... . Car handeled fine though even if it had toe in.