preface: yesterday was my first day of the season in sts with a 99 civic si i picked up last year. i was able to take the car to an event last year and i was just getting used to the car as my previous car was a 94 hatch with a d16z6 that i played with in dsp.

the cars setup: The car is mostly oem with the exception of 17in wheels with fuzion hri tires that came with the car when i bought it, a header and rear koni shocks. i have the rear konis set to one turn(halfway) because the course was super bumpy and i didnt want any surprizes on corner entry.

the problem: Throughout the day i noticed that i was significanly slower than all the other cars regardless of class (2-3sec slower on a 40-45second course). i was pushing the car as hard as i could and noticed a few things. (1)the car was pitching HARD through turns, probably due to stock suspension. other than pitching hard it still had the normal fwd push through corners. (2)no matter how hard i pressed, i would NEVER get wheel spin coming out of corners, only off the start line. (3) front tire pressure was 44 and the rear was 25, however both showed wear marks all the way up the tread. these were problems i think i identified about the car, but of course, there are a few i discovered about the driver like letting of the throttle to early before corner entry.

so i am thinking that all of this can be attributed to stock suspension and stock camber. what do you guys think? i plan on putting on 450/360 springs (daily driver) with koni yellows and my itr bar, but will this solve my problems? i figure (1) was because of the stock suspension and (2) and (3) are because of the stock camber, but i know i am not experienced enough to confirm this. does anybody else have any other recommendations or other possible insight as to how to remmedy my 3 issues, correct my assumptions, and/or help get me to go faster? i already know i need a lot more seat time with this car.

 

99 Si with a B16, an open diff, and no inside wheel spin? I don't believe it, but I would believe that you can't hear or feel it (other have commented on my wheel spin when I didn't know it was happening).

44/25 pressures? wtf?

I ran 50/45 psi on the crappy stock Michelins my Integra came with.
I ran 38/45 psi with stock suspension on RT-615 Azenis.
I run 32/35 psi with 400/400 rates, RT-615 Azenis, and -4*/-1.2* camber.

450/360 are reasonable rates, but you probably won't have the oversteer an auto-x car wants, especially with the EKs rear camber curve. 450/600 might be better, but significantly less streetable (mine is barely streetable now).

 

i should clarify why i am doing 450/360, i already have the springs, so all planned modifications are free. my problem is that with my wife, if its not broken, i cant fix it.

as far as full throttle out of the turn goes, the inside wheel does not spin, this is 2nd gear and the rpms dont jack up, it just accelerates like it normally does, like i am taking the turn too slow. when i gun it, it understeers as expected, but it doesnt spin. i do hear it spin a little and hear the rpms rise prematurely at launch, but that is it. this is my real reason for posting, i expect it to spin too.

i set the pressures the 44/25 to try to get the marks i had on the sidewall equal. with those pressures both the front and the rear would have 1/4in from the ground rubbed off. i do like to keep the front high so that the front responds and the rear low so that it kinda feels like i have a little toe out when i am pushing the car, but i thought 44/25 was way to much of a difference to ensure that the contact patch of the tires was equal. this leads me to believe that i do not have enough static camber up front.

 

You do not chalk the rear tires. You chalk only the fronts and adjust the rear pressures to make the car oversteer. A good starting point is 45 front and 40 rear. If it still understeers drop another 2psi. If it oversteers bring it up 2psi. Remember most daily drivers will understeer if the pressures are the same all around. The bigger the different of air pressure from front to rear the more it SHOULD oversteer or rotate.

The 2-3 seconds is normal (if you are a novice) compared to the veterans in the class and depending on what car they are driving. 6th Gen Si vs 4th or 5th gen Si then the time is about right.

I know my STS 00 Civic Si was about 2 seconds slower than my 91 Civic Si on the same course same wheels/tires (205/50x15" Azenis).

 

17 inch wheels you say...

 

i will admit i am definitely a novice, but when i say 2-3 sec slower i mean 2-3 sec slower than other novices, ftd was 39ish from a 91 si in sts i believe and there were a couple ep3s in sts running 43sec as their best. with my other car i was usually around the middle of the crowd.

thanks for the advice on chalking the tires <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pimpvw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">17 inch wheels you say... </TD></TR></TABLE>yea you want them?? i have been trying to trade for some 15in wheels since i bought the car.

 

Well out of the box the 91 Civic Si is still 2-3 seconds faster than the 99-00 Civic Si if both drivers are the same. So you are already at a disadvantage.

Don't worry about winning thought if you are a novice. Just worry about seat time seat time seat time. Don't compare your times to then novices either. You should be comparing to someone who is consistently fast. See if you can get the fastest person in STS to ride with you or maybe even drive your car to see how your time would compare to his/her. Should be a good reference point.

I've been doing this now for 10 years and my times usually don't waiver by more than a 1/2 second (which sucks btw). I'm a pretty consistent driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well out of the box the 91 Civic Si is still 2-3 seconds faster than the 99-00 Civic Si if both drivers are the same. So you are already at a disadvantage.

Don't worry about winning thought if you are a novice. Just worry about seat time seat time seat time. Don't compare your times to then novices either. You should be comparing to someone who is consistently fast. See if you can get the fastest person in STS to ride with you or maybe even drive your car to see how your time would compare to his/her. Should be a good reference point.

I've been doing this now for 10 years and my times usually don't waiver by more than a 1/2 second (which sucks btw). I'm a pretty consistent driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>i know i will never be the fastest and i will always be doing it just for fun. i was just thinking that 2-3 seconds slower seems like a large step backward from previous seasons. i think you are right. i probably should have gotten an instructor to either drive or ride with me. it was one of the instructors that got the ftd. i will at the next event.

but until then... is there anything i should try with the car aside from putting on the springs and front shocks?

 

Don't touch the car until you:

1. Have an instructor DRIVE your car.
2. Drive with an instructor in your car.
(In this order)

My opinion is that you first want the instructor to understand the car's plus/minus before he starts giving you instruction.

Where did you autocross? I haven't been in the Northern NJ region in a long time, but there are TONS of FWD great talent over there that are willing to help.

 

south jersey the results from this last event can be found here:

http://www.sjr-scca.org/solo/080330results.html

i am 6 STS

i REALLY dont feel like re-living the experience with the stock suspension and running hs on street tires times. i used to love the setup of my car last car...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thisisntjared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... mostly oem with the exception of 17in wheels... </TD></TR></TABLE>

This may be why his wheels aren't spinning.

 

Yeah Boito finally went out and purchased a EF Si He's trying to catch Cy Lee. He was pretty fast in the 2.5RS he had.

I think Dave Hess is now road racing more than autocrossing.

Other thing to remember as a novice is you are probably trying TOO hard to be fast. Relax and drive smooth and your times should drop.

 

i am only .129 from 9th place in sts and i was doing better than half of sts last year. you dont remember because you were too busy in sm.

regarding my amateur skills: i know what my own faults are and i am trying my best to work them out.

my biggest problem is spending too much time using neither the gas nor the brake while approaching the turns. for instance, i will come out of a turn and there is maybe 30 ft before the next. i see other the people putting down the fastest times braking about 10 feet after where i brake, if i brake at all. also it seems like i let off the throttle earlier. i will definitely be getting an instructor with me as davidnyc recommended, because it would have been a lot better to realize these things halfway through the day and not after the event entirely.


Modified by thisisntjared at 12:22 PM 4/2/2008

 

I will retract some of what I said....

maybe at least get some dedicated wheels (keep the 17's for the street and get a competitive tire wheel package.... probably a 15" wheel ???) and then have someone evaluate your car and your driving. I think as some people said above, no matter what you do to the car, getting rid of the 17" tires/wheels would be your first step. So, it may be best to do that now, anyway.

 

hopefully i can get out there on the 27th and I'll compare to my coupe

 

i definitely plan on getting rid of the 17in wheels as soon as the funds reveal themselves. i also plan on getting rid of the 17in wheels but nobody wants to buy them.

anway, i cant wait for the 27th...

 

As previously stated seat time is #1. Don't start throwing parts at your car yet (unless you can trade those 17" for some 15" with good tires!). As far as "using neither the brake or the gas" goes. This is just lack of experience and seat time. Drive with an instructor or another experienced autocrosser with FWD experience, and most importantly HAVE FUN! Once you get comfortable try left foot braking, that helps keep you either on the gas or the brake, no coasting. The more you drive the better you will get in ANY car prepped at ANY level.

 

Come out to our event at Hershey Giant Center in Hershey, PA. One of the biggest lots in the northeast It's April 12-13th and registration is filling up quick. Courses are usually 70 seconds long.

http://www.scca-susq.com